Clomid or Nolvadex which one to use

[silverstrand]

Yea I here you. If I knew what I know now about how to get that extra boost in testosterone naturally I would have never have tried clomid or TRT.

I guess we can only learn from our experiences with what we take. It's hard to say for sure because I ignored it as much as I could but about a solid inch regardless of its state. Even before I got crazy about jumping on protocols to get better I had already recovered from the clomid sides/size reduction. With that said the clomid sides seem temporary.

As for now I'm almost done with PCT and I am deciding when I want to run another DHT prohormone cycle. Seeing that my first A300 cycle seems to have provided me with lasting benefits and seeing that I'm in the gym hard right now I may run another as early as Sept 1st. The lasting benefits in my case where not seen until I was well into PCT which I think is interesting.

Nice, I'm glad it was only temporary. Fin seems to have reduced my size just a little, maybe quarter of an inch. Pumping seems to improve the situation, can wait until my levels are normalized so I can experience some gains. I don't want much, just what I lost and a little more. As for running cycles, Im going to stick with running tests and modifying my plans as I go from there. These last results put to rest many false assumptions and pointed out other things that need more attention. I believe I dont have that much of an estrogen imbalance, something that can be resolved by using Sustain Alpha 2 to 3 times a week at most with one pump each dose. Waiting to see my next set of bloods in 5 more weeks or so. I want to be more calculated. It will cost more but dude, I'm so done allowing this to take time away from my life. Time is everything.

[5 alpha victim]

So your estrogen is not that out of control but your total and or free T is to low?

Have you tried cycling natty T boosters yet. Even though I have not verified this with blood work yet, I'm going by feel and it's obvious to me it works for increasing testosterone. It feels more like a slight increase but that's all thats probable really needed at the end of the day.

The pine pollen powder every day seems like a good thing to add on to a natty T boosting protocol. I'll verify everything with labs eventually but for now I'm just going by feel.

My insurance denied payment on the last set of labs I had done through an endo. I got stuck with a $1300 bill and had to appeal though my insurance to force them to pay. So for a while I need to lie low on trying to put labs through my insurance.

[keep]

Unfortunately, I have not recovered from the side effects of Tamoxifen (shrinkage of penis and worsening of ED). What medication can I try to reverse this? As far as I know Tamoxifen acts as an anti-estrogen in the breast but as an estrogen in the uterus/endometrium in females. I assume that it acts as an estrogen in males testicles/penis.

[silverstrand]

So your estrogen is not that out of control but your total and or free T is to low?

Have you tried cycling natty T boosters yet. Even though I have not verified this with blood work yet, I'm going by feel and it's obvious to me it works for increasing testosterone. It feels more like a slight increase but that's all thats probable really needed at the end of the day.

The pine pollen powder every day seems like a good thing to add on to a natty T boosting protocol. I'll verify everything with labs eventually but for now I'm just going by feel.

My insurance denied payment on the last set of labs I had done through an endo. I got stuck with a $1300 bill and had to appeal though my insurance to force them to pay. So for a while I need to lie low on trying to put labs through my insurance.

My T is low, low 400's but so is my LH. I posted my test results. I believe my use of andractim and androhard suppressed my t production to some extent. I dont konw by how much but my DHT values were close to 3 times the high normal amount.

I wont really know until my next labs. I'm sure I have an estrogen issue but I believe it is secondary to the other parts of my system that got totally screwed up. I'm taking an indirect/natural approach and doing my homework. I do have T boosting herbs and I'm currently using them.

[silverstrand]

Unfortunately, I have not recovered from the side effects of Tamoxifen (shrinkage of penis and worsening of ED). What medication can I try to reverse this? As far as I know Tamoxifen acts as an anti-estrogen in the breast but as an estrogen in the uterus/endometrium in females. I assume that it acts as an estrogen in males testicles/penis.

How much did you use and how long did you use it for? Also any other sides like reduced night vision? How much of a reduction? There are others out here who have used it before and can give you better advice. It will probably be a good idea to get some lab work done and follow up with that information. Taking additional meds while in the dark to your numbers isn't the best way to go about it.

[WesleyInman]

Nolva targets breast tissue better then pretty much anything.

Clomid is off label used as HRT...so for PCT or to return HPTA it is a great tool. I have heard of mood swings while on.

Personally if I were you, I'd run both at the same time. Also I would run Cialis @ 5-10mgs ED just to make sure any hormone fluctuations don't wreak havoc on sexual abilities.

Last, what are your prolactin levels like?? Those if they are high, can cause ED issues to occur or pregyno/gyno issues can return immediately.

Think of it this way, until you get your hormones balanced, any fluctuations can spike levels and you can simply return gyno symptoms, etc...upon cessation.

I like PCT protocols longer then shorter for this reason. I have had my guys get scripts of clomid and nolva and run them for 2-4 months after a cycle. This is not unsafe generally speaking and it gives a very good overall result to someone who was on AAS long term.

[keep]

How much did you use and how long did you use it for? Also any other sides like reduced night vision? How much of a reduction? There are others out here who have used it before and can give you better advice. It will probably be a good idea to get some lab work done and follow up with that information. Taking additional meds while in the dark to your numbers isn't the best way to go about it.

I took 20mg for the first couple of days, then 10mg, then 5mg. I took it for about two weeks. While I was on it I had hot flushes. No other side effects. The girth of my penis was reduced and more flaccid than before (hard to explain). I did several blood tests. They don't show much difference compared to those I took before Tamoxifen (my original problem was PFS).

[Brazilianguy]

So I decided to take clomid 12.5mg E3D. I'm feeling good, not as good as 20mg of nolvadex But its safer and I'll have less risk of estrogen rebound. Should I take low dosage of AI while doing it? i was thinking about taking .25mg of arimidex twice a week and continue for a week without clomid and then restart.

I'm asking about the AI because I had an estrogen rebound from nolvadex and got estrogen rebound that made my nipples burn and got puffy but clomid made them less puffy. I still have a little bit of gyno But when I felt better even without SERMs (with tribulus for instance) my gyno was cleared so basically is just more fat around breast that got corrected with better T:E.

Jelisej If you read this I read that you talked about low metabolic rate. How can I know that I have improvements in this department? I mean when I get a better baseline, more energy, libido and this improvements stay with me, that would mean that I got a better metabolic rate?

Thank you. I'm following the advices Jelisef and Nate gave me and already feeling improvements. I'm grateful.

[5 alpha victim]

I took 20mg for the first couple of days, then 10mg, then 5mg. I took it for about two weeks. While I was on it I had hot flushes. No other side effects. The girth of my penis was reduced and more flaccid than before (hard to explain). I did several blood tests. They don't show much difference compared to those I took before Tamoxifen (my original problem was PFS).

Your experience with Tamoxifen was exactly the same as my experience was with Clomid as far as the girth and size issue you speak of.

Just like you said our labs give us no clues as to why a SERM can do this. Just like my endo told me about how a SERM seems to act as an estrogen somehow in our bodies you seem to be saying the same thing.

According to my endo taking a SERM for a short period of time like you did is more or less pointless in the regard that you will probably only experience higher T levels just while on it. If there is any truth to a SERM being able to permantly "reactivate" LH and or FSH production than it will probably take a lot longer than two weeks to be able to do this. Most endos say that you would need to take a SERM for an extended period of time to really permantly correct secondary hypogondaism and that's if it's even possible to do so.

For approx a year and a half after my two year Clomid restart my total testostetone remained in the 700's. For a majority of the time while on Clomid my total T was above 1000 NG/DL. Before I went on Clomid my total T was in the 300's. So it went from low (pre clomid ) to crazy high (during Clomid) and than into the 700's post Clomid . So it worked for a while even after off of it in my case.

However about a year and half after Clomid my total T dropped down to the 200 range (even lower than it was before Clomid).

I blame a fish oil sup actually for my most recent crash in T levels. But of course there's no way to know for sure.

But I don't see us getting anything out of short term SERM usage other than the side effects like we both experienced with the shrunken dick. Unless of course obviously a guy who did a steroid cycle is using it just to experience higher natural T levels right after their cycle for a month or two. But even then I think that guys T levels would have recovered anyway and that in that situation their SERM usage had next to nothing to do with why their T levels ended up recovering for the long term if that was the end result.

Time is the only thing I can say corrected my Clomid induced shrunken dick. Even with T levels in the 200's I did not experience that loss in girth i got on Clomid. Also for me DHT prohomones seem to help with gains in girth and size.

[5 alpha victim]

So I decided to take clomid 12.5mg E3D. I'm feeling good, not as good as 20mg of nolvadex But its safer and I'll have less risk of estrogen rebound. Should I take low dosage of AI while doing it? i was thinking about taking .25mg of arimidex twice a week and continue for a week without clomid and then restart.

I'm asking about the AI because I had an estrogen rebound from nolvadex and got estrogen rebound that made my nipples burn and got puffy but clomid made them less puffy. I still have a little bit of gyno But when I felt better even without SERMs (with tribulus for instance) my gyno was cleared so basically is just more fat around breast that got corrected with better T:E.

Jelisej If you read this I read that you talked about low metabolic rate. How can I know that I have improvements in this department? I mean when I get a better baseline, more energy, libido and this improvements stay with me, that would mean that I got a better metabolic rate?

Thank you. I'm following the advices Jelisef and Nate gave me and already feeling improvements. I'm grateful.

If the main concern you have right now about estrogen is estrogen rebound than perhaps waiting until you are done with Clomid restart to take the AI is the best ?

I'm not to familer with estrogen rebound but if I understand it correctly it's the estrogen rebound effect that takes place after you are done altering your hormone levels. Maybe someone else can confirm or deny that.

Only other insight on it I can offer is at one point during my Clomid restart I added in armidex at a low dose that you are considering and that's actually exactly when I experienced the shrunken dick during my Clomid restart. To this day I wonder if I never added in that armidex if I would have seen the dick shrinking during my Clomid restart.

When I added in the armidex I had no concerns about estrogen other than my estrogen flagging as high on my labs that I was getting to monitor what the Clomid was doing. Me and my endo seen a out of range estrogen reading and combined that with the fact that even At Clomid induced 1000 NG/DL
Total T readings I was still experiencing ED and said ok let's add armidex.

My point is that in my case things took a turn for the worst for me during my Clomid restart once I added in the Armidex. So if I was you don't go by just lab readings or just symptoms. Go by the combination of both of those things to make your decision about adding in a AI. Ohh and u may want to consider trying Res100 for your AI before armidex.

Res100 has had me feeling almost just as good over the last few days as I was feeling on my 6 week DHT pro hormone run. Good Enough to the point where I was tempted to continue to just stay on Res 100 but I said fuck it and now I'm running another DHT prohomones run. I'm curious to see if I'll continue to experience imorovments from additional runs.