Test Results

[Cdsnuts]

Hi Jel,
Really, you knocked some sense to me! I've been suffering for over 9 years now and I'm really beat. My hands are in the air as in I know, I can't do this on my own. I'm seeing an endo this Friday. I really wish I did this sooner but it was doctors that helped put me here in the first place so I really didn't want too. I've noticed, that those who have recovered have boosted their testosterone into the 900s or better. I know there's a ton of variables but short of me totally being a fuck up in the past, do you think based on my numbers, my body is capable of that type of hormone production without HRT?
I am going to use the Preg at 50 mg, no Aromasin so that way I can guage my aromatization among other things. Take one variable at a time, i understand. Ill bring this up with the endo as well.
You really have been a huge help. Please know I did what I did because I was in extreme pain and stress.
Thank you!!

When in doubt, it's better to not throw more shit into the mix. You just cause more issues this way.

[silverstrand]

I don't know how you guys all feel about country music but there's a song by Lee Brice, Love Like Crazy and in it, he gives advice on how to live ones life. The one line that hits me deep is his line on "Don't out smart your common sense." I'd have to say, this has been a challenge all my life and the reason why I've been in this mess and for so long. I came here to help me progress and prevent making mistakes. I am so appreciative of being knocked over the head because at times, that is what I need to stay on track. I'm seeing this Endo tomorrow and I'm really hoping he gives me the same advice you all are. If so, I'll feel comforitable partnering with him while keeping in contact with all of you. This forum is the best place of any for second oppinions. I hope SS stays vibrant as this is too rich a community to let go.

[silverstrand]

There are lot of success stories here, and their main obstacle was to stop panicking and improving lifestyle and adding supplements with help of professionals, doing various tests including blood tests and adjusting supplements/medication based on those results, biggest issue was definitelly mental downside and also medicating based on symptoms which usually does not work well,
there are lot of factors there but destiny is still mainly in your hands! Even yourself, with little bit of patience and battle plan there was improvement, if you invest more improvement will be better.
Slow and steady wind battle!

Good luck bro' !

You are right Jel! When I stuck to the plan, I got over a 100 point jump in Total T, my BioAvail T increased and my T4 increase while TSH decreased. My body is responsing positively. I'll stick to it. In a couple months I'll know more. I am following your advice and that of others on here!

[tallstraw]

It has nothing to do with even PFS in my opinion. Seldom do I see normalized 900's..especially after a cycle..maybe pre(first) cycle bloods..afterwards nope.

[silverstrand]

It has nothing to do with even PFS in my opinion. Seldom do I see normalized 900's..especially after a cycle..maybe pre(first) cycle bloods..afterwards nope.

Ok, I just noticed a lot of guys who got better had their TT in the upper range, at or above the 900 mark. As I've ran like 4 cycles of andro hard, its probably too much to expect at this point. I'll follow the plan and take it slow. In hindsite, my cycles were haphazard and dangerous too. I took the recommend dose of 6 gel caps for 2 months max, but a few times during cycle I tried even more. The most I tried was maybe 9 in one day and only did that a couple days but saw no additional benefit so backed off rather quickly. My PCT generally lasted 8 to 10 weeks. That was way too short of a time frame and should have been double that. I wish I had found this site before running the cycles. My hope is that these compounds were more forgiving that regular AAS so as to not be too suppressive to my HPTA on the long run. BTW, that was primarily in 2013 and 2014. 2015, I ran for about 5 months andractim and aromasin. The results of that are what is reflected in my first test. My second test is 2 months afterwords free of both drugs.

[Cdsnuts]

Ok, I just noticed a lot of guys who got better had their TT in the upper range, at or above the 900 mark. As I've ran like 4 cycles of andro hard, its probably too much to expect at this point. I'll follow the plan and take it slow. I wish I had found this site before running the cycles.

Running AH just as many time as that if not a few more, I can say that it wouldn't negatively effect your T levels afterwords to the extent that your talking about. That was one of the safest Ph's out there and even after running it for 4 months straight I could have gotten away fine without a PCT.

[silverstrand]

Running AH just as many time as that if not a few more, I can say that it wouldn't negatively effect your T levels afterwords to the extent that your talking about. That was one of the safest Ph's out there and even after running it for 4 months straight I could have gotten away fine without a PCT.

Thanks CD for confirming that. Everything I've read and seen on AH was always positive with limited HPTA suppression so maybe my PCT duration was sufficient. HOWEVER, I will say on my second run, I ran PhytoTestosterone for PCT which was incredibly stupid in my case. At the time, I didn't know it was a 5alpha blocker and only found out after a month of using it. That PCT was different than the first in that I was actually worse off in general than before. My first PCT, i felt better but the second was bad. The last two, I had so so results in my general health. Overall body composition got better but I didn't feel I was progressing so i took like 6 months off. Then I did the andractim and aromasin which probably hurt me the most. To Jels point, I wish I did my bloods 6 months ago, that would have been a perfect baseline read.
What I do like is that I only burned 5 days this time doing the wrong thing and that's thanks to this community!

[entropy]

Thanks CD for confirming that. Everything I've read and seen on AH was always positive with limited HPTA suppression so maybe my PCT duration was sufficient. HOWEVER, I will say on my second run, I ran PhytoTestosterone for PCT which was incredibly stupid in my case. At the time, I didn't know it was a 5alpha blocker and only found out after a month of using it. That PCT was different than the first in that I was actually worse off in general than before. My first PCT, i felt better but the second was bad. The last two, I had so so results in my general health. Overall body composition got better but I didn't feel I was progressing so i took like 6 months off. Then I did the andractim and aromasin which probably hurt me the most. To Jels point, I wish I did my bloods 6 months ago, that would have been a perfect baseline read.
What I do like is that I only burned 5 days this time doing the wrong thing and that's thanks to this community!

Cd used phytotest I believe. Iirc he enjoyed it. Different strokes for different folks huh?

I honestly doubt dhea derivative phs can have a serious negative impact on testosterone. When Tallstraw says he's never seen decent levels after cycles, I think he means proper 12-16 weeks completely shut down on proper aas like test and deca. Ad far as I'm aware with my experiences with dhea derivatives like 4-dhea, epiandro etc i was barely shutdown.

[tallstraw]

^thats exactly what I mean. My bad, I'm forgetting the context of this thread. Yeah when someone is actually cycling, I don't see 900 bloods after a cycle. That's exactly what I meant. AH I can't see really negatively affecting bloods, except high long term dosing and even that I'd put at minimal. Since o remember right they did long term dosing of actual dht(proviron) at 100mg a day for a period of time and showed very little to no negative impact on serum testosterone. This is from memory though, let me try to find the study.

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic o... - PubMed - NCBI

[silverstrand]

^thats exactly what I mean. My bad, I'm forgetting the context of this thread. Yeah when someone is actually cycling, I don't see 900 bloods after a cycle. That's exactly what I meant. AH I can't see really negatively affecting bloods, except high long term dosing and even that I'd put at minimal. Since o remember right they did long term dosing of actual dht(proviron) at 100mg a day for a period of time and showed very little to no negative impact on serum testosterone. This is from memory though, let me try to find the study.

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic o... - PubMed - NCBI

Thanks Tallstraw! I found similar studies and based my use of Andractim off of them thinking I would get only minimal suppression or none at all. But Jel is once again correct, at least in my case as I can tell from my labs that it did suppress my LH to below normal levels. My LH never got to zero but down to about 1.3 and that was with my DHT levels at almost 3 times above the high range. 2 months later it was about to 2.3 and my DHT was still above range. I remember reading that oral proviron will enter the blood at 3 to 4% so on that basis, I was in line or slightly below that amount most of the time for about 5 months. Only other issue is I used aromasin as well. My estrogen got low but never to the point where my joints ached. I still don't know what that feels like really.
I'm not sure if that can be considered sufficient suppression leading to lasting impairment of test levels?
I'm just glad I stopped and followed everyones advice - got labs and let some time pass. Now the only thing I'm on is Pregnenolone 50 mg. The past few days, I have been feeling real good on it.