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Thread: Test Results

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverstrand View Post
    Thanks Tallstraw! I found similar studies and based my use of Andractim off of them thinking I would get only minimal suppression or none at all. But Jel is once again correct, at least in my case as I can tell from my labs that it did suppress my LH to below normal levels. My LH never got to zero but down to about 1.3 and that was with my DHT levels at almost 3 times above the high range. 2 months later it was about to 2.3 and my DHT was still above range. I remember reading that oral proviron will enter the blood at 3 to 4% so on that basis, I was in line or slightly below that amount most of the time for about 5 months. Only other issue is I used aromasin as well. My estrogen got low but never to the point where my joints ached. I still don't know what that feels like really.
    I'm not sure if that can be considered sufficient suppression leading to lasting impairment of test levels?
    I'm just glad I stopped and followed everyones advice - got labs and let some time pass. Now the only thing I'm on is Pregnenolone 50 mg. The past few days, I have been feeling real good on it.
    I got joint pain When I took too much tamoxifen.

    Now I'm taking clomid, 12.5mg, first pill was good, more energy, less brain fog, balls got bigger, after 5 days I decided to take more 12.5mg, this time I got more tired, more muscle wastage, less strenght. Maybe I decrease too much E.

    What I can tell you is that after getting too low E with tamoxifen, I got an estrogen rebound that made me worse.

  2. #42
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    So the Endo turned out to be worthless.
    She looked at my first set of labs and said everything looked fine, - no wait, her exact words were "your numbers look good" - WTF!
    We proceeded onto the next set of labs and said that these are better; "you shouldn't have a problem." No mention that my SHBG is high for my test, that my Progesterone is non-existant, DHEA-S is low, my free test is rock bottom and my thyroids are low. She asked if I have seen a psychiatrist for my insomnia. Plus she said NOT to take Pregnenolone. No way lady, I'll take Jel's word over yours any day! Since taking Preg, mentally, I've been feeling pretty good, plus I can shit like a normal person. She also told me NOT to take any iodine suppliments, that our western diets have more than enough and selenium is of little to no benefit.
    I'm sure there are great docs out there; but, trouble is in finding them.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazilianguy View Post
    I got joint pain When I took too much tamoxifen.

    Now I'm taking clomid, 12.5mg, first pill was good, more energy, less brain fog, balls got bigger, after 5 days I decided to take more 12.5mg, this time I got more tired, more muscle wastage, less strenght. Maybe I decrease too much E.

    What I can tell you is that after getting too low E with tamoxifen, I got an estrogen rebound that made me worse.
    From what I can tell dude, is there's a protocol to all this stuff which starts by getting labs drug free to get stable blood levels while maintaining a healthy lifestyle. Then over the course of several months adding items in and monitoring progress. I feel its a top to bottom approach. Estrogen and DHT are at the bottom, so probably the last things to mess with.
    My plan is set for the next couple months while I seek out an endo who "gets it"
    Last edited by silverstrand; 10-30-2015 at 05:35 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverstrand View Post
    From what I can tell dude, is there's a protocol to all this stuff which starts by getting labs drug free to get stable blood levels while maintaining a healthy lifestyle. Then over the course of several months adding items in and monitoring progress. I feel its a top to bottom approach. Estrogen and DHT are at the bottom, so probably the last things to mess with.
    My plan is set for the next couple months while I seek out an endo who "gets it"
    I hate to break it to you bro, but if there was an endo that "got it" there would be no such thing as guys suffering with PFS. The problem is, they don't get it. The reason they don't get it is because it's not a straight out problem of looking at labs and fixing the numbers. I thought you knew that after spending any amount of time on PH. What ever Propecia does, it's not something that can be fixed by throwing a bunch of pharmaceuticals at it. Even the endo's that are in the know concerning the issue, don't know how to fix it because it doesn't respond like a regular guy with low T responds. This is unfortunately PFS 101.

    IMO, you're just prolonging the suffering by playing around the way you are. There is a reason my stance on the subject is the way it is. I don't know why you're trying to re-invent the wheel. You know what you need to do. There are posts after posts after posts of guys who are and were trying to fix themselves the way your are, and it NEVER gets them where they need to go. You're not going to force your body into doing anything. The writing is on the wall. You need to just sack up and do what works. It's almost like you've never even been to the PH website and you're coming here forgetting what you're actually dealing with.

    This is an "out of the box" issue and you're not going to fix it by searching for inside the box answers. Maybe you need to go back to that site an re-read all of the things that didn't work. Or....and here's a novel idea....follow one of the few recovery stories there and COPY IT. PICK ONE, and stick to it......FOR A YEAR. Then re-evaluate. You're just spinning your wheels other wise and you're doing it right in front of all of us to see. I don't think you realize that though.
    Last edited by Cdsnuts; 10-30-2015 at 08:47 PM.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazilianguy View Post
    I got joint pain When I took too much tamoxifen.

    Now I'm taking clomid, 12.5mg, first pill was good, more energy, less brain fog, balls got bigger, after 5 days I decided to take more 12.5mg, this time I got more tired, more muscle wastage, less strenght. Maybe I decrease too much E.

    What I can tell you is that after getting too low E with tamoxifen, I got an estrogen rebound that made me worse.
    This is complete fucking bullshit. You didn't notice more "muscle wastage" in a matter of days cause you took slightly more clomid. I can see you losing definition, smoothing over due to water retention etc, losing fullness maybe but there's no just no way you've had muscle wastage in that time period.

    Also serms don't lower your estrogen at all.

    You guys just don't get it anyway. Dunno why I bother getting frustrated with ya
    Cervix stabbing ftw.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverstrand View Post
    So the Endo turned out to be worthless.
    She looked at my first set of labs and said everything looked fine, - no wait, her exact words were "your numbers look good" - WTF!
    We proceeded onto the next set of labs and said that these are better; "you shouldn't have a problem." No mention that my SHBG is high for my test, that my Progesterone is non-existant, DHEA-S is low, my free test is rock bottom and my thyroids are low. She asked if I have seen a psychiatrist for my insomnia. Plus she said NOT to take Pregnenolone. No way lady, I'll take Jel's word over yours any day! Since taking Preg, mentally, I've been feeling pretty good, plus I can shit like a normal person. She also told me NOT to take any iodine suppliments, that our western diets have more than enough and selenium is of little to no benefit.
    I'm sure there are great docs out there; but, trouble is in finding them.
    Guys. Please. Stop relying on meds to fix a problem caused by meds, even if it is possible to stabilise your endocrine system you're still just putting gas in a leaky tank.
    You need to give your body the raw materials it needs to fix itself. Lots of sleep, good food, smart exercise, actually living your life and not obsessing over what this fucking drug did to you because it's just pumping you full of stress hormones and messing with the balance.

    You don't magically pick the combination of drugs and get "cured". Thats not how this works. You get livable, then you slowly but surely get better, you stop thinking about it as much and all of a sudden you'll be minding your own business when you realise... You've felt normal for months.
    Cervix stabbing ftw.

  7. #47
    Established Member Feedback Score 3 (100%) tallstraw's Avatar
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    I feel like you guys need to atleast understand the hormones, or the hormone modulators in their own form, and what they do..before you start throwing them in your bodies..or having a very slight base knowledge and just going off of what Jel tells you. Jel is smart as fuck and has forgotten more than I know, but you can't just take what someone says as the gospel. I feel like if you all understood these things more, you'd understand why a lot of what you try doesn't work.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallstraw View Post
    I feel like you guys need to atleast understand the hormones, or the hormone modulators in their own form, and what they do..before you start throwing them in your bodies..or having a very slight base knowledge and just going off of what Jel tells you. Jel is smart as fuck and has forgotten more than I know, but you can't just take what someone says as the gospel. I feel like if you all understood these things more, you'd understand why a lot of what you try doesn't work.
    What I will say is Jel is smarter than the Endo I just saw and in all honesty, I believe it should be people like Jel or others like him who totally understand hormones that should be practicing docs. Imagine how much misery could be avoided by having competent docs available.

  9. #49
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    Test Results

    Quote Originally Posted by silverstrand View Post
    What I will say is Jel is smarter than the Endo I just saw and in all honesty, I believe it should be people like Jel or others like him who totally understand hormones that should be practicing docs. Imagine how much misery could be avoided by having competent docs available.
    Or avoiding them completely. .... like it or not, docs Prescribing meds for people are one of the biggest causes of that misery in the first place.

    Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    Or avoiding them completely. .... like it or not, docs Prescribing meds for people are one of the biggest causes of that misery in the first place.

    Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk
    YES!!!
    I believe its because the Pharmaceutical Industry hijacked the educational system. Plus there's incentives for Docs to not cure but treat patients. So little is invested in investigating the cause and instead, treating symptoms.
    It would naturally correct itself but for government mandates.
    There's so many pitfalls for people to lose their health, wealth, and happiness in this society. Its sad.

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