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  1. #31
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Maxout777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TubZy View Post
    Not trying to be a dick, but spirulina is very high in GLA (Gamma Linolenic Acid) which is a potent DHT inhibitor. I bought spirulina at first then read about it and I just stay with chorella now instead. If you handle it fine, awesome, but I would personally stay away. See below:


    Another source of DHT blockers is Gamma-linolenic acid (GLA), an essential fatty acid (EFA) found mostly in plant-based oils such as evening primrose oil, black currant seed oil, and borage oil. EFAs are necessary for healthy brain function, bone health, stimulation of skin and hair growth, and metabolism. GLA has been shown in studies to inhibit DHT-enhanced activity of 5 alpha-reductase. (4) In one study, animals treated with GLA had a noticeable effect on inhibiting 5 alpha-reductase type 2.(5) In the study, researchers investigating another compound that inhibited 5 alpha-reductase type 2 suggested this particular agent might be effective for fighting male pattern baldness.

    5 alpha-reductase-catalyzed conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone is increased in prostatic adenocarcinoma cells: suppression by 15-lip... - PubMed - NCBI

    The extract of Thujae occidentalis semen inhibited 5alpha-reductase and androchronogenetic alopecia of B6CBAF1/j hybrid mouse. - PubMed - NCBI

    GLA Is A Powerful DHT Inhibitor
    A lot of things that show up in studies as 5AR inhibitors (rice, resveratrol, zinc) I consume fairly frequently with no problems. I take Wicked Supplements' TocoCaps every day and it contains beta sitosterol (a component in saw Palmetto, which is what fucked me) and it does nothing but benefit me (FWIW, it's only 8mg which is small in comparison to a Saw Palmetto extract). But I was kinda this way originally because of my experience but I took the plunge on TocoCaps, Res, rice, zinc, coconut oil (all shown in studies as 5AR/DHT inhibitors), yet I make monthly (sometimes more than that) progress to recovery, and I'm in a pretty good place right now to where I rarely think about PFS.

    The main ones I would avoid are: Finasteride/dutasteride (obviously), saw palmetto berry or extract/beta-sitosterol, pygeum, or high dose zinc. Those are all proven to cause people PFS-like problems.
    There ain't no traffic along the extra mile.

    Never Quit.

  2. #32
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 TubZy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxout777 View Post
    A lot of things that show up in studies as 5AR inhibitors (rice, resveratrol, zinc) I consume fairly frequently with no problems. I take Wicked Supplements' TocoCaps every day and it contains beta sitosterol (a component in saw Palmetto, which is what fucked me) and it does nothing but benefit me (FWIW, it's only 8mg which is small in comparison to a Saw Palmetto extract). But I was kinda this way originally because of my experience but I took the plunge on TocoCaps, Res, rice, zinc, coconut oil (all shown in studies as 5AR/DHT inhibitors), yet I make monthly (sometimes more than that) progress to recovery, and I'm in a pretty good place right now to where I rarely think about PFS.

    The main ones I would avoid are: Finasteride/dutasteride (obviously), saw palmetto berry or extract/beta-sitosterol, pygeum, or high dose zinc. Those are all proven to cause people PFS-like problems.
    Studies as in vitro or vivo? Vitro I agree, a lot of the studies can be disregarded but vivo studies should be looked at more closely.

    2 out of 3 5AR inhibitors you just named also have anti estrogenic properties (zinc and resveratrol) which is probably off sets any 5AR inhibition. I take both of those supplements everyday (sustain alpha and zinc picolinate) with no problems. I couldn't tell you my personal experience with rice as I eat keto but I doubt a food would have a similar effect in terms of potency compared to an herbal extract.

    Regarding Tococaps, read this thread (post #126 and #127): Eric Potratz.... new company, new product! - Page 13

    5ARI properties with phytosterols occur with 300mg per day, tococaps contains under 10mg per serving so that is why it doesn't effect us much (I use tocotrienols too with no sides)

    "The main ones I would avoid are: Finasteride/dutasteride (obviously), saw palmetto berry or extract/beta-sitosterol, pygeum, or high dose zinc. Those are all proven to cause people PFS-like problems."

    I would also include fenugreek (read this: Saw Palmetto and Fenugreek...im in trouble!), stinging nettle root (I had issues with it; so did others and I think CD nuts too did read this thread: Super Man Herbs - Page 8)

    Point is to just be careful regarding what you take. By taking in a bunch of natural 5ARI's could be just as detrimental especially to anyone who suffered/suffers from PFS as we are already sensitive enough. I think as time goes on though and you keep recovering your body can handle them normally again. I remember a year ago I couldn't handle one drop of caffeine and now I'm back to drinking a light cup of coffee again and some tea and feel fine.
    Last edited by TubZy; 08-08-2016 at 06:11 PM.

  3. #33
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Maxout777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TubZy View Post
    Studies as in vitro or vivo? Vitro I agree, a lot of the studies can be disregarded but vivo studies should be looked at more closely.

    2 out of 3 5AR inhibitors you just named also have anti estrogenic properties (zinc and resveratrol) which is probably off sets any 5AR inhibition. I take both of those supplements everyday (sustain alpha and zinc picolinate) with no problems. I couldn't tell you my personal experience with rice as I eat keto but I doubt a food would have a similar effect in terms of potency compared to an herbal extract.

    Regarding Tococaps, read this thread (post #126 and #127): Eric Potratz.... new company, new product! - Page 13

    5ARI properties with phytosterols occur with 300mg per day, tococaps contains under 10mg per serving so that is why it doesn't effect us much (I use tocotrienols too with no sides)

    "The main ones I would avoid are: Finasteride/dutasteride (obviously), saw palmetto berry or extract/beta-sitosterol, pygeum, or high dose zinc. Those are all proven to cause people PFS-like problems."

    I would also include fenugreek (read this: Saw Palmetto and Fenugreek...im in trouble!), stinging nettle root (I had issues with it; so did others and I think CD nuts too did read this thread: Super Man Herbs - Page 8)

    Point is to just be careful regarding what you take. By taking in a bunch of natural 5ARI's could be just as detrimental especially to anyone who suffered/suffers from PFS as we are already sensitive enough. I think as time goes on though and you keep recovering your body can handle them normally again. I remember a year ago I couldn't handle one drop of caffeine and now I'm back to drinking a light cup of coffee again and some tea and feel fine.
    I agree with you on all the points you just mentioned, especially on Fenugreek and Nettle, good catch on me leaving those off, I just like to avoid the "analysis paralysis" piece of this whole thing. You've got guys on here who are scared to even touch fish oil.
    There ain't no traffic along the extra mile.

    Never Quit.

  4. #34
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 TubZy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxout777 View Post
    I agree with you on all the points you just mentioned, especially on Fenugreek and Nettle, good catch on me leaving those off, I just like to avoid the "analysis paralysis" piece of this whole thing. You've got guys on here who are scared to even touch fish oil.
    Yeah, I see I agree. Oh wow, fish oil lol? That is a first for me.

  5. #35
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TubZy View Post
    Not trying to be a dick, but spirulina is very high in GLA (Gamma Linolenic Acid) which is a potent DHT inhibitor. I bought spirulina at first then read about it and I just stay with chorella now instead. If you handle it fine, awesome, but I would personally stay away. See below:


    Another source of DHT blockers is Gamma-linolenic acid (GLA), an essential fatty acid (EFA) found mostly in plant-based oils such as evening primrose oil, black currant seed oil, and borage oil. EFAs are necessary for healthy brain function, bone health, stimulation of skin and hair growth, and metabolism. GLA has been shown in studies to inhibit DHT-enhanced activity of 5 alpha-reductase. (4) In one study, animals treated with GLA had a noticeable effect on inhibiting 5 alpha-reductase type 2.(5) In the study, researchers investigating another compound that inhibited 5 alpha-reductase type 2 suggested this particular agent might be effective for fighting male pattern baldness.

    5 alpha-reductase-catalyzed conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone is increased in prostatic adenocarcinoma cells: suppression by 15-lip... - PubMed - NCBI

    The extract of Thujae occidentalis semen inhibited 5alpha-reductase and androchronogenetic alopecia of B6CBAF1/j hybrid mouse. - PubMed - NCBI

    GLA Is A Powerful DHT Inhibitor
    I wouldn't take this as you trying to be a dick. Just trying to supply helpful information which here is always welcomed.

    This supplement (which I actually consider a food moreso than a supplement) falls into the category of other natural substances whereby their other benefits FAR out weight any natural 5ar inhibition that they might have. I'm extremely sensitive to any 5ar inhibition as are most PFS guys....which is why we are PFS guys in the first place, right? I haven't noticed ANY negatives from this at all. None. As a matter of fact, anything that I have on my lists don't give me any negative effects at all either, otherwise they wouldn't be on the list in the first place. My list is based on my own experiences with usage over the past many years of experimentation. Obviously everyone's different when it comes to their constitutions and their genetic predispositions so care should be taken any time your start something new. But seeing as it's not an extract and it's in it's natural form, the chances of anything grave coming out of taking Spirulina are ridiculously low. So low in fact, I wouldn't bother worrying about it.

    Thanks for the studies though, and welcome to the site.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  6. #36
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 TubZy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    I wouldn't take this as you trying to be a dick. Just trying to supply helpful information which here is always welcomed.

    This supplement (which I actually consider a food moreso than a supplement) falls into the category of other natural substances whereby their other benefits FAR out weight any natural 5ar inhibition that they might have. I'm extremely sensitive to any 5ar inhibition as are most PFS guys....which is why we are PFS guys in the first place, right? I haven't noticed ANY negatives from this at all. None. As a matter of fact, anything that I have on my lists don't give me any negative effects at all either, otherwise they wouldn't be on the list in the first place. My list is based on my own experiences with usage over the past many years of experimentation. Obviously everyone's different when it comes to their constitutions and their genetic predispositions so care should be taken any time your start something new. But seeing as it's not an extract and it's in it's natural form, the chances of anything grave coming out of taking Spirulina are ridiculously low. So low in fact, I wouldn't bother worrying about it.

    Thanks for the studies though, and welcome to the site.
    OK, cool, thanks. Have you noticed that when you recovered you weren't as sensitive to natural 5ARI compounds? For example, I remember taking saw palmetto way back long before I even touched fin and it didn't give me any sides (that I noticed), but after taking fin even the slightest things that could be estrogenic or 5ARI's make me extremely sensitive, although recently over the last 6 months I have made major improvements and it seems I can tolerate things way better now (like pre-fin) compared to when coming off fin.

  7. #37
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    Great question tubzy, i've always wondered that also

  8. #38
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxLUK View Post
    CDSNuts, what is your opinion on enemas/coffee enemas, and if you have done them, what benefits did you get from them? Would you reccomend them during a fast or a cleanse of some sort?
    Please keep the thread OT
    Last edited by Cdsnuts; 10-11-2016 at 02:16 PM.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    Please keep the thread OT
    Sorry CD, I thought it was applicable

  10. #40
    Established Member Feedback Score 1 (100%) Grape Ape's Avatar
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    CDN, have you ever seen any bloodwork to back up this cycling method?

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