Need help overcoming hopefully my final stages of PFS

[Atticas]

The first article you posted is not a working link. And John Kiefer has never denounced his carb back loading plan... Ever

Secondly, you can pretty much find any article to suit your preference on the internet. What counts is Real World experience and the results of other people, myself included. Why don't you try Googling carb back-loading success stories instead? Carb back-loading works. There are plenty of guys on this site alone that use it with great success. Check out the lifelog of scope on this site. That's just one of them.

Keep looking for reasons why you shouldn't do things, and you'll find them. I'm done entertaining this train of thought as it's pointless.

You get what you put into this program. You put half in, you'll get half back.

Tony Robbins has a great quote..." Stop being afraid of what could go wrong and start getting excited about what can go right."

Good luck to you.

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Let me reword that, he didn't totallllly denounce the idea.. but here's what he did say (You can find this quote around 9:57):

John Kiefer: Trashing Paleo, Ketogenic Diet Mistakes, Why It’s Good to Be Wrong - YouTube

Interviewer: "So let's talk about some of the stuff you were wrong about, the ones that were the most surprising for you in regards to carbonate or carb backloading that you thought was one way but is perhaps another?"

Kiefer:".…Eh…..that’s gonna open up a can of worms. So I'm pretty much convinced that the insulin hypothesis as it stands is totally wrong. Insulin is not the culprit that is causing issues…..and that came up because a lot of people actually made really good arguments about insulin release when you have other types of meals,it’s almost unavoidable ...because as you eat you get GLP1 (glucagon like peptide 1 - for unawares) Increase, which will make you release insulin, regardless. You have that and certain proteins have really strong insulin responses but we still see fat loss in those instances…..So I started looking deeper into it and insulin alone isn’t actually the main problem, it’s a combination of effects. It’s very distinctly insulin plus glucose. So in essence a very good Q is that high carb people make is that insulin levels are not always chronically elevated - it only happens once you’re sick and diabetic.

But part of the insulin and ketosis, you know insulin control in ketosis is the solution, part of their argument is that insulin is high all the time thats whats forcing extra nutrients into fat tissues and so on and so forth and causing insensitivty …..but...that doesn’t jive, it just, logically doesn’t make sense."

[Cdsnuts]

Let me reword that, he didn't totallllly denounce the idea.. but here's what he did say (You can find this quote around 9:57):

John Kiefer: Trashing Paleo, Ketogenic Diet Mistakes, Why It’s Good to Be Wrong - YouTube

Interviewer: "So let's talk about some of the stuff you were wrong about, the ones that were the most surprising for you in regards to carbonate or carb backloading that you thought was one way but is perhaps another?"

Kiefer:".…Eh…..that’s gonna open up a can of worms. So I'm pretty much convinced that the insulin hypothesis as it stands is totally wrong. Insulin is not the culprit that is causing issues…..and that came up because a lot of people actually made really good arguments about insulin release when you have other types of meals,it’s almost unavoidable ...because as you eat you get GLP1 (glucagon like peptide 1 - for unawares) Increase, which will make you release insulin, regardless. You have that and certain proteins have really strong insulin responses but we still see fat loss in those instances…..So I started looking deeper into it and insulin alone isn’t actually the main problem, it’s a combination of effects. It’s very distinctly insulin plus glucose. So in essence a very good Q is that high carb people make is that insulin levels are not always chronically elevated - it only happens once you’re sick and diabetic.

But part of the insulin and ketosis, you know insulin control in ketosis is the solution, part of their argument is that insulin is high all the time thats whats forcing extra nutrients into fat tissues and so on and so forth and causing insensitivty …..but...that doesn’t jive, it just, logically doesn’t make sense."

Just stop. Really. Stop.

He is NOT bashing carb backloading......AT ALL. What video are you watching?? You're hearing what you want to hear. He is talking specifically about part of the ketogenic diet.....lol. This just goes to show you exactly what I said before. If you look for something, positive or negative, you'll find it. So why not look for the positive? Go back to 15:10 or so in the video and you'll hear him explain carb backloading and carb night, and you'll also hear the host of the show say "yeah, I do carb backloading"

This is just ridiculous. I'm telling you from personal experience it works. Plenty of guys on this site use it in one form or another, because it works, and you'll be able to find hundreds of accounts online about how and why it works. You....someone who has never even attempted it because you think it would have you force feeding yourself, which it wouldn't, are trying to discredit it by any means necessary, unsuccessfully so. Why put so much energy into bashing something that you have no clue about? You're talking out your ass. I'm speaking from a place of experience.

This whole thing is just a waste of time. Just because you don't want to do everything that's necessary, you decide to try and shoot holes in it. This is the stuff that happens over at Propecia help and other forums. Maybe you'd be better suited for that type of environment rather then this one that focuses on solutions, not problems. It's clear that you're trying to dirty the waters with unsubstantiated claims and just pure negative bullshit. It's also clear you don't know how to research based on what you're showing me here. It's obvious that you didn't understand what was being said in that video.

If you don't want to do all that is necessary to get well, that is on you. But don't come around here trying to poke holes in something you have no clue about OR experience with. This whole thing was a massive waste of time.

I'm here to help people, not argue moot points with people who have no clue about what they're talking about. Be done with this. You don't want to do it, fine, move on. This is done.

[Atticas]

Just stop. Really. Stop.

He is NOT bashing carb backloading......AT ALL. What video are you watching?? You're hearing what you want to hear. He is talking specifically about part of the ketogenic diet.....lol. This just goes to show you exactly what I said before. If you look for something, positive or negative, you'll find it. So why not look for the positive? Go back to 15:10 or so in the video and you'll hear him explain carb backloading and carb night, and you'll also hear the host of the show say "yeah, I do carb backloading"

This is just ridiculous. I'm telling you from personal experience it works. Plenty of guys on this site use it in one form or another, because it works, and you'll be able to find hundreds of accounts online about how and why it works. You....someone who has never even attempted it because you think it would have you force feeding yourself, which it wouldn't, are trying to discredit it by any means necessary, unsuccessfully so. Why put so much energy into bashing something that you have no clue about? You're talking out your ass. I'm speaking from a place of experience.

This whole thing is just a waste of time. Just because you don't want to do everything that's necessary, you decide to try and shoot holes in it. This is the stuff that happens over at Propecia help and other forums. Maybe you'd be better suited for that type of environment rather then this one that focuses on solutions, not problems. It's clear that you're trying to dirty the waters with unsubstantiated claims and just pure negative bullshit. It's also clear you don't know how to research based on what you're showing me here. It's obvious that you didn't understand what was being said in that video.

If you don't want to do all that is necessary to get well, that is on you. But don't come around here trying to poke holes in something you have no clue about OR experience with. This whole thing was a massive waste of time.

I'm here to help people, not argue moot points with people who have no clue about what they're talking about. Be done with this. You don't want to do it, fine, move on. This is done.

SO defensive x''D

And of COURSE there's people all over the internet saying a diet fad works for them. There's tons of people all over the internet who supported OTHER diet fads as well and stated it worked for them! Does that mean they are all scientifically sound/superior? NO! As you yourself would agree, correlation does not equal causation, and there may clearly be a lot more factors behind someone's weight loss than just what or what time they were eating.

Look, it's not like I'm poking new holes here. You're promoting a method that has been around for years and in that time has been (a) shown to have holes in various articles (b) discredited by Alan Aragon among other fitness gurus..... and (c) had one of its major points denounced by its own creator.... but you're the one claiming I don't know how to research.

Here's a review from almost 4 years ago written by Joseph Agu:

https://www.elitenutritioncoaching.c...loading-part-1
https://www.elitenutritioncoaching.c...loading-part-2

If it does ANYTHING, it's fairly minuscule. The best study to support it had flaws in its methodology... lack of structured exercise program, the cops were reporting the caloric intake themselves, the caloric intake differed between both groups as they were cutting as even Kiefer points out, and the subjects weren't even being given the correct amounts of protein needed to support regular muscle maintenance.

Again, my point being, I think you've found a lot of stuff that helps. Do I find it the holy grail or absolutely all necessary? Probably not. Example A: Carb Backloading. Until we fully understand what Finasteride did to us, it seems overassumptive to declare you have all the answers with your regimen. Does the regimen help? For most, I'm sure!............... Does not following it to the t means you won't heal or that there aren't better ways? I don't believe so. I think more answers are to come in the future and I really enjoy the research TubZy and Haidut have let out.

But whatever man, you can just keep calling me a slack and pessimistic in the meanwhile. My bad for asking for more solid research and more answers than just "follow it cuz I say so! It works!"

[Cdsnuts]

I'm promoting it because it works. I'm done going back and forth with you on this issue because you've already made up your mind about something you haven't even tried which in and of itself is completely ridiculous.

If you would actually take the time to try it, you would be able to see for yourself. But rather than do that you're looking for reasons why it won't work.

If you want solid research, personal experience is the best teacher. It will always Trump any article or study you read online.

Rather than get all of the benefits you possibly can you're selling yourself short because of something you believe that's incorrect.

And defensive....perhaps a little. But that's simply because other guys that are on the fence may read what you're writing and rather then just try it for themselves, they're going to decide it's not for them based upon the things you're writing. That's going to do nothing but sell them short.

If you choose not to take all the advice that's given to you because you feel this or you feel that, without basing it on any personal real world experience, that is your prerogative.

Again, you get what you put in. RESULTS are ALL that matters in this situation. NOT some bullshit article or study done by people trying to actively discredit something.

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[Maxout777]

I don't put a whole lot of faith in scientific studies anymore after this whole experience.

I didn't use finasteride, only Saw Palmetto, but I remember seeing plenty of medical studies on the safety of finasteride. And look how far that got most of the people here.....Just saying. Nothing is wrong with studies to back up claims, but some of them aren't worth the paper they are printed on compared to someone's experience with the compound. I just try things now and see how they do for me. It's served me much better than trying to find out how something works on a forum.

[Cdsnuts]

That is one of the biggest things I try to tell guys that end up in this situation.

I try and tell them to just suspend all belief that they may have right or wrong and dive into this 100%. Typically if they give it enough time they're more than glad that they did.

I found that most guys are their own worst enemies.

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[Swill]

Keeping this brief....

1) I use carb backloading. It works, and I lean out great and feel great. It doesn't involve shovelling a shit tonne of food in thats unbearable post training, I've never found it difficult.

2) How can you comment on what is or isn't the holy grail, as someone that HASN'T recovered, to someone that HAS recovered, with any degree of certainty. CD is saying what has CATEGORICALLY worked for him, and it has also worked for plenty of others too, many of whom I've spoken to. I'm not out of the woods yet, but damn its done me some good and life is pretty damn awesome... I didn't think id ever be saying that a couple of years back.

To me, keeping your body without carbs in the earlier part of the day prolonging the period your body is a 'fat burning inferno' by not introducing carbs that halt this metabolic process after sleep, fueling on lots of good fats, then taking in carbs at the exact time the body is primed to process them in the most efficient way just makes perfect sense.

And as Maxout said, how can you put so much stoke in scientific studies? Shall I dig up the massive double-binded study that says finasteride is safe and any side effects experienced will resolve very quickly after cessation, drop a link to it here, then we can all agree it is in our heads and just leave it at that?

Give carb backloading a go. Or dont and go your own route. But don't critique something you haven't even tried to bunch of people that have with a great deal of success.

[Benq123]

The truth is the truth and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But that being said, the whole routine is based in science. All of it. Rather then making a brash decision such as this, if you would actually do everything that is prescribed for a long period of time, you would see that what I'm telling you is the truth.

You see, if part of my routine has made you feel better, as you've said, what makes you think diving in 100% won't make you feel even better? Logic would follow that it would.

I've been doing this for a long while my man. I'm saying this to you from personal experience. Whether you choose to believe it or not, is on you.

You can lead a horse to water.....

Good luck to you.

Sorry if I'm repeating or missing something dumb but just wanted some clarification.
Prohormones aren't part of the protocol right? Just herbs, and everything else you mention on "the Regimen" section of your website.
Just making sure I'm doing it 100%. Thanks

[Cdsnuts]

Sorry if I'm repeating or missing something dumb but just wanted some clarification.
Prohormones aren't part of the protocol right? Just herbs, and everything else you mention on "the Regimen" section of your website.
Just making sure I'm doing it 100%. Thanks

Please don't randomly jump in on someone else's thread and ask a question that is off topic to the thread at hand.

If you have a question start a new post.

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[5 alpha victim]

I never got into the carb back loading simply because I was focusing on other parts that I felt needed more of my attention. I plan on including it soon though.  Atticus, from reading your posts it's clear that you have achevied some good results by following these methods. Better attitude, squatting 300 pounds girl friend Ect..

I suppose we could talk it to death or keep it at the two simple questions asked on Cds website:

1) did I lift heavy today?
2) is it dark out?

Let's eat some white rice and potatoes.

I mean if you are going go eat rice and potatoes anyway what difference does it make as far as the level of difficulty that it takes to eat it later in the day anyway.

That sounds much easier. With all the finastride reducing allopreg concertrations in guinea pig brains studies we seem to be all reading about nowadays something needs to stay easy and not complicated.