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  1. #1
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    Recovery plan and questions

    I have quite a list of symptoms that started after taking some beta-sitosterol containing supplements, and also no longer respond to androgens, so I can only assume that this is some pfs type problem.

    These symptoms include:
    -no libido
    -ED
    -Apathy, loss of emotions, social and motivational problems, lack of interest and enjoyment
    -10+kg fat gain independant of diet and exercise (I was naturally lean before)
    -puffy/chubby/emasculated face (this one is killing me, I used to like the way I looked)
    -mental and physical fatigue
    -unrefreshing sleep, I feel like hell unless I get atleast 10-11 hours
    -bad brain fog
    -worsened anxiety
    -muscle pain
    -Some Muscle wasting
    -gyno

    My current recovery plan involves:
    -circadian rythm: early to bed early to rise
    -getting alot of sunlight
    -mindset and stress: mindfulness+metta meditation - atleast 1 hour/day
    -intermittant fasting & paleo type diet: 1-2 meals/day, probs in the morning for convenience
    -exercise: cardio + weights 2-5 times a week depending on my muscle & joint pains
    -alcohol/caffeine/narcotic avoidance
    -tribulus/tongkat/maybe other herbal libido boosters
    -Basic vitamins/minerals
    -being patient


    As for my questions:
    -Has anyone had trouble with creatine? I'd like to start taking it but some people from the propeciahelp forum say that it caused them to crash
    -Likewise anyone had troubles with Maca? I'm scared of this one because it contains beta-sitosterol
    -I notice a theme being put forward here is that chemical solutions don't lead to lasting or even meaningful recoveries, Is using growth hormone peptides to help with sleep, muscle pain, and the physique benefits a bad idea? As far as I've read they don't cause any shutdown so you can stop whenever
    - As I've been struggling alot with motivations and doing things lately I'm stuck thinking that forcing myself to do healthy and productive things when all i really feel like doing is lying down and reading will end up with me burning out and stressed to the max which would be counterproductive, any thoughts on this?
    -Is doing a fast necessary? I'm scared of losing what muscle I have left

    I would love some tips and suggestions, and any encouragement you can manage would help more than you know.
    Last edited by t14; 11-22-2016 at 07:55 PM.

  2. #2
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    As I've been telling the other guys in here, I have noticed great improvement after doing a 7 day juice feast. Yeah, the prep was a pain in the ass, but it was well worth it. From my experience, everything CD has posted is legit. I'm sure some things will affect people differently but the overall regimen works. I'm not 100% but have greatly improved.

    Do a fast or juice feast. I did lose muscle mass, but bounced back quicker than I thought I would.

    As for the MACA, I avoid it. I was taking it before my crash along with saw palmetto. Later I read that it could be a 5 ar inhibitor. CD said he took MACA and had no issues. I'm probably being overly cautious, but I have the 21 day herbal rotation that does not include it.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by CannonBalls View Post
    As I've been telling the other guys in here, I have noticed great improvement after doing a 7 day juice feast. Yeah, the prep was a pain in the ass, but it was well worth it. From my experience, everything CD has posted is legit. I'm sure some things will affect people differently but the overall regimen works. I'm not 100% but have greatly improved.

    Do a fast or juice feast. I did lose muscle mass, but bounced back quicker than I thought I would.

    As for the MACA, I avoid it. I was taking it before my crash along with saw palmetto. Later I read that it could be a 5 ar inhibitor. CD said he took MACA and had no issues. I'm probably being overly cautious, but I have the 21 day herbal rotation that does not include it.
    What about water fasting? and this might be a dumb question, but how exactly do you do a juice fast?
    Last edited by t14; 11-16-2016 at 10:56 PM.

  4. #4
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    Juice feast, not fast.

    & Google is your friend

  5. #5
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    Probably going to do water fasting instead since I'm worse off than most that I see on here. Would sarcosine or d-aa (or any other t-boosters for that matter) be an issue on a water fast? They're technically amino acids but I'm only taking a combined total of 6g a day.
    Last edited by t14; 11-22-2016 at 01:07 AM.

  6. #6
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    Update:
    -have stopped the ai with mixed results, some negative physical & emotional changes but also a few positive mental/emotional ones. Gyno is getting worse, more muscle wasting, more hip fat, chubbier face and more of overthinking but I'm also able to enjoy things more now and I have at least some of my personality back. I think I've pretty much accepted that my growth has been stunted now and there's nothing I can do with it, hopefully packing on muscle after I recover can make up for my awkward adolescant/feminine(?) body shape. That reminds me, is it safe to go on trt or other steroids after recovering? Trying low dose masteron when I was doing self trt, before I knew I had this & thought I just had low t, led to a second crash which made all my symptoms worse. I needed trt before this and will probably need it after but I don't want to crash myself again.

    -Did 2 & 3 day water fasts consecutively a couple of weeks ago (was meant to be 5 but fucked up and had mexican at the end of day 2) and have been doing intermittant fasting (2 meals a day, one for breakky one for lunch). Have been gluten/dairy/soy free and am doing a paleo-esque diet with only meat/fruit/safe veg although It's not strict paleo as I have not excluded green peas or chickpeas since they're a good source of fibre which I would otherwise struggle to get. I also sometimes have other non paleo foods that I don't get bad inflammation from.

    -Have changed gyms to one with a sauna because i believe heavy metals could be a problem for me, since the herb that fucked me up (gotu kola) plus a couple I took before that are known to hyperaccumulate them, and heavy metal toxicity is linked to gyno. Idk if it's otherwise beneficial since I feel pretty bad & worn out for a day or so after using it, not sure if this is from moving heavy metals around or if its just more stress than my body can handle. I've only been weight training twice a week with two cardio days since It seems like doing more than that is wearing me out wayyy too much, even with this small volume I feel like dirt for a long while after training, although I think the cardio is helping alot.

    -I've also been keeping up with metta/loving kindness meditation aswell as mindfulness, 30 min each of both a day, I think these have both helped me alot and allow me to be more at peace and fuction better. I'm struggling with the fact that I'm stuck on the sidelines of life while my friends are all genuinely enjoying themselves, making mad gains and starting to date/fuck decent looking chicks, although I am happy with them I'm still coming to terms with being a bystander.

    -As for supplements I've been taking basic vitamins, s.boulardii, PQQ (helps I think?), tongkat, DAA, and some tribulus although I've found that higher doses of tribulus actually make me feel quite a lot worse, will probably start a rotation soon. Is the whole dht prohormone cycle thing really necessary? It seems like stuff that increases dht makes me feel worse with masteron causing a second crash and high dose tribulus making me feel terrible.

    -I need to remember to stay away from places like propeciahelp/solvepfs completely. The rampant negativity and doom & gloom in those places infects me like a fuckin disease man.
    Last edited by t14; 12-16-2016 at 10:28 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by t14 View Post
    Update:
    -have stopped the ai with mixed results, some negative physical & emotional changes but also a few positive mental/emotional ones. Gyno is getting worse, more muscle wasting, more hip fat, chubbier face and more of overthinking but I'm also able to enjoy things more now and I have at least some of my personality back. I think I've pretty much accepted that my growth has been stunted now and there's nothing I can do with it, hopefully packing on muscle after I recover can make up for my awkward adolescant/feminine(?) body shape. That reminds me, is it safe to go on trt or other steroids after recovering? Trying low dose masteron when I was doing self trt, before I knew I had this & thought I just had low t, led to a second crash which made all my symptoms worse. I needed trt before this and will probably need it after but I don't want to crash myself again.

    -Did 2 & 3 day water fasts consecutively a couple of weeks ago (was meant to be 5 but fucked up and had mexican at the end of day 2) and have been doing intermittant fasting (2 meals a day, one for breakky one for lunch). Have been gluten/dairy/soy free and am doing a paleo-esque diet with only meat/fruit/safe veg although It's not strict paleo as I have not excluded green peas or chickpeas since they're a good source of fibre which I would otherwise struggle to get. I also sometimes have other non paleo foods that I don't get bad inflammation from.

    -Have changed gyms to one with a sauna because i believe heavy metals could be a problem for me, since the herb that fucked me up (gotu kola) plus a couple I took before that are known to hyperaccumulate them, and heavy metal toxicity is linked to gyno. Idk if it's otherwise beneficial since I feel pretty bad & worn out for a day or so after using it, not sure if this is from moving heavy metals around or if its just more stress than my body can handle. I've only been weight training twice a week with two cardio days since It seems like doing more than that is wearing me out wayyy too much, even with this small volume I feel like dirt for a long while after training, although I think the cardio is helping alot.

    -I've also been keeping up with metta/loving kindness meditation aswell as mindfulness, 30 min each of both a day, I think these have both helped me alot and allow me to be more at peace and fuction better. I'm struggling with the fact that I'm stuck on the sidelines of life while my friends are all genuinely enjoying themselves, making mad gains and starting to date/fuck decent looking chicks, although I am happy with them I'm still coming to terms with being a bystander.

    -As for supplements I've been taking basic vitamins, s.boulardii, PQQ (helps I think?), tongkat, DAA, and some tribulus although I've found that higher doses of tribulus actually make me feel quite a lot worse, will probably start a rotation soon. Is the whole dht prohormone cycle thing really necessary? It seems like stuff that increases dht makes me feel worse with masteron causing a second crash and high dose tribulus making me feel terrible.

    -I need to remember to stay away from places like propeciahelp/solvepfs completely. The rampant negativity and doom & gloom in those places infects me like a fuckin disease man.
    I have the same shitty weight issue..Just gets worse and worse..Have gained over 40lbs of just fluid like filled tissue around stomach, waist and love handles..Even thighs and upper biceps are a lot more fat..Low energy coupled with this weight gain and mental side effects is like a reciepe for death for myself..Its horrible condition that there seems to be not even any relief for let a lone a cure..

  8. #8
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    Today I was reminded again how important cardio is after completely destroying the shitty mood I had all last night and this morning with only 20 mins of exercise

    might start doing some wim hoff aswell

  9. #9
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    Dude I used to run 30plus miles a week..Owned a treadmill for 15 years..Would run 5.25 on average in 45 minutes..Keep a food journal, everything..Weight 160 to 165 for 15years..Now weigh 205! While taking this I noticed slight increase in my body fat and strange like fluid around stomach..After stopping have under went a complete physical change..I can barley run 2 miles now let alone 5..Energy is so low and the weight is so tiresome..Still can't figure this out but defintely hormonal its different than getting fat from consuming calories..I may try a fast next some have said that has helped..Its unbelievable really..I am getting a complete hormone panel done in next week or so..Will post results everyone tells me its estrogen taking over from lack of dht and low test causing the fluid retention and body fat..

  10. #10
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    when's the last time you ran?

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