5a-DHP

[rmoore]

I went to the health food store to get more Calm and got a brochure for this: Vital Proteins Pasture-Raised, Grass-Fed Collagen Peptides. Wonder if this would be the same thing as the Great lakes brand.

[TubZy]

I went to the health food store to get more Calm and got a brochure for this: Vital Proteins Pasture-Raised, Grass-Fed Collagen Peptides. Wonder if this would be the same thing as the Great lakes brand.

Yeah, i heard of that brand, it should work pretty well otherwise great lakes has been around and used by many many ppl

[TubZy]

100%

That being said, some people have issues where these systems aren't regulating correctly (PFS). In these conditions isolated compounds can be great. But as the body heals, the isolated compounds should give way to include a more holistic approach to supplementation. For the most part getting the whole thing in is what we all should shoot for. This is a great example of why application of the correct diet can be so powerful.

Yup, I agree. The good thing about the endogenous steroids in physiological doses is that administering them soley don't really have any negative impacts on the HPTA and actually some have positive effects like 5a-DHP for example which is why I mentioned isolated compounds aren't always bad.

You are absolutely right, diet should be number 1.

[DrivenToRecover]

Yep lol. Nope you aren't- I love the texture/taste too haha. If you take enough for a while you'll notice smoother skin. I usually do a tablespoon or two with each meal along with my meats like eggs, beef and chicken to get a nice balance.

I used to take straight glycine, but gelatin/collagen has much more benefits plus the glycine of course.
.
Do you feel slightly relaxed after taking it? I put a tablespoon or so in hot water and drink it with meals. Hot water makes it hit quicker (learned it from CDnuts haha). Anything more than 2 tablespoons with a meal I could fall asleep and pass out haha - GABA agonism is real.

I don't feel noticeably more relaxed after I take it, but after reading that article I think I might mega dose it tonight & report back.
I'm gonna get into the routine of a tbsp morning and a tbsp at night.

Reading that is another example of something that I've found really interesting, and that is that the body is good at using ingredients from parts of other animals to help those same parts of you...that is: gelatin is good for your connective tissue, eating heart is good for your heart, eating liver is good for your liver, ect.

I wish I had learned this type of shit in school years ago before I had any sort of health problems lol Instead we learned to eat our "Heart Healthy" whole grains smh..

One thing I keep seeing on the ray peat stuff tubz is that serotonin is bad? I thought you wanted serotonin levels about as high as naturally possible?

[TubZy]

I don't feel noticeably more relaxed after I take it, but after reading that article I think I might mega dose it tonight & report back.
I'm gonna get into the routine of a tbsp morning and a tbsp at night.

Reading that is another example of something that I've found really interesting, and that is that the body is good at using ingredients from parts of other animals to help those same parts of you...that is: gelatin is good for your connective tissue, eating heart is good for your heart, eating liver is good for your liver, ect.

I wish I had learned this type of shit in school years ago before I had any sort of health problems lol Instead we learned to eat our "Heart Healthy" whole grains smh..

One thing I keep seeing on the ray peat stuff tubz is that serotonin is bad? I thought you wanted serotonin levels about as high as naturally possible?

Try 2 tablespoons tonight. I don't really notice the relaxing effect from 1 tablespoon that much that is why I can handle it during the day.

Yep, screw grains man I feel so much better cutting them out. They are inflammatory, have gluten, suppress thyroid/metabolism, inhibit zinc absorption, horrible for the gut/hard to digest etc. Fruit, white rice and potatoes are my carb sources.

Yes, Peat is against serotonin, he doesn't say to completely eliminate it but keep it as low as possible in the normal range. The reason is that estrogen, prolactin, cortisol, histamine and serotonin are all interconnected and are all stress related to the organism. Serotonin slows metabolism and is considered elevated in only times of stress, along with increasing prolactin, estrogen and cortisol. Anything that causes "stress" towards the organism is going to put resources away from the right functions of the body. Like how cortisol causes weight gain, depressed sexual function, crappy skin etc. I always thought serotonin was the "good" guy too.

Take for example, SSRI's. So many people are screwed up from SSRI's b/c they raise serotonin. All the sides of SSRI's are very similar to PFS...weight gain, slowed metabolism, prolactin rise, ED, low libido etc.

There is new evidence now that the "anti-depressant" effect of SSRI's is actually from the rise in allopregnenolone now- not from the serotonin increase.

All in all, the main neurotransmitters you want elevated is GABA and dopamine. You probably know but both of those have anti- stress, pro-metabolic, pro testosterone, pro thyroid functions, neuroprotective functions. If you want to read more in depth about serotonin, check it out Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.

In Parkinson’s disease, the benefits seen from increasing the concentration of dopamine could result from dopamine’s antagonism to serotonin; anti-serotonin drugs can alleviate the symptoms, and 5-hydroxytryptophan can worsen the symptoms (Chase, et al., 1976). Other movement disorders, including akathisia and chorea, can be produced by serotonin. In autism, repetitive motions are a common symptom, and serotonin is high in the blood serum and platelets of autistic children and their relatives. Irritable bowel syndrome, another kind of “movement disorder,” can be treated effectively with anti-serotonin agents. This syndrome is very common in women, with premenstrual exacerbations, when estrogen is highest. One of the side effects of oral contraceptives is chorea, uncontrollable dancing movements. Some research has found increased serotonin in people with Huntington’s chorea (Kish, et al., 1987), and positive results with bromocriptine have been reported (Agnoli, et al., 1977).

The neurosteroid, allopregnanolone, for which progesterone is the precursor, facilitates the inhibitory action of GABA, which is known to be deficient in some disorders of mood and movement. This suggests that progesterone will be therapeutic in the movement disorders, as it is in various mood problems. Progesterone has some specific antiserotonin actions (e.g., Wu, et al., 2000).

The “serotonin reuptake inhibitors” “are presumed” to have the same effect on the brain that they have on blood platelets. They inhibit the ability of platelets to retain and concentrate serotonin, allowing it to stay in the plasma. This uptake-inhibited condition is a model of the platelet behavior seen in multiple sclerosis and Alzheimer’s disease.

Serotonin and its derivative, melatonin, are both involved in the biology of torpor and hibernation. Serotonin inhibits mitochondrial respiration. Excitoxic death of nerve cells involves both the limitation of energy production, and increased cellular activation. Serotonin has both of these actions.

Increased serotonin interferes with the consolidation of learning. Hypothermia has a similar effect. Since estrogen increases serotonergia, and decreases body temperature, these effects help to explain the long-observed interference of estrogen with learning.

[Cdsnuts]

Try 2 tablespoons tonight. I don't really notice the relaxing effect from 1 tablespoon that much that is why I can handle it during the day.

Yep, screw grains man I feel so much better cutting them out. They are inflammatory, have gluten, suppress thyroid/metabolism, inhibit zinc absorption, horrible for the gut/hard to digest etc. Fruit, white rice and potatoes are my carb sources.

Yes, Peat is against serotonin, he doesn't say to completely eliminate it but keep it as low as possible in the normal range. The reason is that estrogen, prolactin, cortisol, histamine and serotonin are all interconnected and are all stress related to the organism. Serotonin slows metabolism and is considered elevated in only times of stress, along with increasing prolactin, estrogen and cortisol. Anything that causes "stress" towards the organism is going to put resources away from the right functions of the body. Like how cortisol causes weight gain, depressed sexual function, crappy skin etc. I always thought serotonin was the "good" guy too.

Take for example, SSRI's. So many people are screwed up from SSRI's b/c they raise serotonin. All the sides of SSRI's are very similar to PFS...weight gain, slowed metabolism, prolactin rise, ED, low libido etc.

There is new evidence now that the "anti-depressant" effect of SSRI's is actually from the rise in allopregnenolone now- not from the serotonin increase.

All in all, the main neurotransmitters you want elevated is GABA and dopamine. You probably know but both of those have anti- stress, pro-metabolic, pro testosterone, pro thyroid functions, neuroprotective functions. If you want to read more in depth about serotonin, check it out Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.

In Parkinson’s disease, the benefits seen from increasing the concentration of dopamine could result from dopamine’s antagonism to serotonin; anti-serotonin drugs can alleviate the symptoms, and 5-hydroxytryptophan can worsen the symptoms (Chase, et al., 1976). Other movement disorders, including akathisia and chorea, can be produced by serotonin. In autism, repetitive motions are a common symptom, and serotonin is high in the blood serum and platelets of autistic children and their relatives. Irritable bowel syndrome, another kind of “movement disorder,” can be treated effectively with anti-serotonin agents. This syndrome is very common in women, with premenstrual exacerbations, when estrogen is highest. One of the side effects of oral contraceptives is chorea, uncontrollable dancing movements. Some research has found increased serotonin in people with Huntington’s chorea (Kish, et al., 1987), and positive results with bromocriptine have been reported (Agnoli, et al., 1977).

The neurosteroid, allopregnanolone, for which progesterone is the precursor, facilitates the inhibitory action of GABA, which is known to be deficient in some disorders of mood and movement. This suggests that progesterone will be therapeutic in the movement disorders, as it is in various mood problems. Progesterone has some specific antiserotonin actions (e.g., Wu, et al., 2000).

The “serotonin reuptake inhibitors” “are presumed” to have the same effect on the brain that they have on blood platelets. They inhibit the ability of platelets to retain and concentrate serotonin, allowing it to stay in the plasma. This uptake-inhibited condition is a model of the platelet behavior seen in multiple sclerosis and Alzheimer’s disease.

Serotonin and its derivative, melatonin, are both involved in the biology of torpor and hibernation. Serotonin inhibits mitochondrial respiration. Excitoxic death of nerve cells involves both the limitation of energy production, and increased cellular activation. Serotonin has both of these actions.

I couldn't have said this better myself. Great response. 100% spot on

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[DrivenToRecover]

Try 2 tablespoons tonight. I don't really notice the relaxing effect from 1 tablespoon that much that is why I can handle it during the day.

Yep, screw grains man I feel so much better cutting them out. They are inflammatory, have gluten, suppress thyroid/metabolism, inhibit zinc absorption, horrible for the gut/hard to digest etc. Fruit, white rice and potatoes are my carb sources.

Yes, Peat is against serotonin, he doesn't say to completely eliminate it but keep it as low as possible in the normal range. The reason is that estrogen, prolactin, cortisol, histamine and serotonin are all interconnected and are all stress related to the organism. Serotonin slows metabolism and is considered elevated in only times of stress, along with increasing prolactin, estrogen and cortisol. Anything that causes "stress" towards the organism is going to put resources away from the right functions of the body. Like how cortisol causes weight gain, depressed sexual function, crappy skin etc. I always thought serotonin was the "good" guy too.

Take for example, SSRI's. So many people are screwed up from SSRI's b/c they raise serotonin. All the sides of SSRI's are very similar to PFS...weight gain, slowed metabolism, prolactin rise, ED, low libido etc.

There is new evidence now that the "anti-depressant" effect of SSRI's is actually from the rise in allopregnenolone now- not from the serotonin increase.

All in all, the main neurotransmitters you want elevated is GABA and dopamine. You probably know but both of those have anti- stress, pro-metabolic, pro testosterone, pro thyroid functions, neuroprotective functions. If you want to read more in depth about serotonin, check it out Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.

In Parkinson’s disease, the benefits seen from increasing the concentration of dopamine could result from dopamine’s antagonism to serotonin; anti-serotonin drugs can alleviate the symptoms, and 5-hydroxytryptophan can worsen the symptoms (Chase, et al., 1976). Other movement disorders, including akathisia and chorea, can be produced by serotonin. In autism, repetitive motions are a common symptom, and serotonin is high in the blood serum and platelets of autistic children and their relatives. Irritable bowel syndrome, another kind of “movement disorder,” can be treated effectively with anti-serotonin agents. This syndrome is very common in women, with premenstrual exacerbations, when estrogen is highest. One of the side effects of oral contraceptives is chorea, uncontrollable dancing movements. Some research has found increased serotonin in people with Huntington’s chorea (Kish, et al., 1987), and positive results with bromocriptine have been reported (Agnoli, et al., 1977).

The neurosteroid, allopregnanolone, for which progesterone is the precursor, facilitates the inhibitory action of GABA, which is known to be deficient in some disorders of mood and movement. This suggests that progesterone will be therapeutic in the movement disorders, as it is in various mood problems. Progesterone has some specific antiserotonin actions (e.g., Wu, et al., 2000).

The “serotonin reuptake inhibitors” “are presumed” to have the same effect on the brain that they have on blood platelets. They inhibit the ability of platelets to retain and concentrate serotonin, allowing it to stay in the plasma. This uptake-inhibited condition is a model of the platelet behavior seen in multiple sclerosis and Alzheimer’s disease.

Serotonin and its derivative, melatonin, are both involved in the biology of torpor and hibernation. Serotonin inhibits mitochondrial respiration. Excitoxic death of nerve cells involves both the limitation of energy production, and increased cellular activation. Serotonin has both of these actions.

Increased serotonin interferes with the consolidation of learning. Hypothermia has a similar effect. Since estrogen increases serotonergia, and decreases body temperature, these effects help to explain the long-observed interference of estrogen with learning.

I took 3 tablespoons and I feel pretty damn sleepy.

It really makes sense to me now why I had the health problems I had even as a kid. I lived off of Nutri grain bars, PB&J's, and Goldfish lol

SSRI's...Don't even get me started. I've been trying to get a family member off of them for a while now, and It frustrates me to see them still take them knowing what I know. I'm guessing the 5a-dhp would be a great alternative for a female as well?

Dopamine is another thing I'm always looking to learn more on as well. I know from taking adderall 15 years straight my natural dopamine is pretty down-regulated. No fap, no drugs, and exercise are the things that seem to help with that the most. I do sometimes wonder about the long term effects of the adderall though...its weird for me to think that from age 7-22 just about every experience that I had was with a constant hit of amphetamines in my system. Thank God neuroplasticity is a thing lol

Tubz you really are a wealth of internet knowledge with all your research and computer savy haha. I really am thankful for a few of the things you've gotten me into...Got any resources bookmarked for helping with dopamine?..peat or otherwise?

[Cdsnuts]

I took 3 tablespoons and I feel pretty damn sleepy.

It really makes sense to me now why I had the health problems I had even as a kid. I lived off of Nutri grain bars, PB&J's, and Goldfish lol

SSRI's...Don't even get me started. I've been trying to get a family member off of them for a while now, and It frustrates me to see them still take them knowing what I know. I'm guessing the 5a-dhp would be a great alternative for a female as well?

Dopamine is another thing I'm always looking to learn more on as well. I know from taking adderall 15 years straight my natural dopamine is pretty down-regulated. No fap, no drugs, and exercise are the things that seem to help with that the most. I do sometimes wonder about the long term effects of the adderall though...its weird for me to think that from age 7-22 just about every experience that I had was with a constant hit of amphetamines in my system. Thank God neuroplasticity is a thing lol

Tubz you really are a wealth of internet knowledge with all your research and computer savy haha. I really am thankful for a few of the things you've gotten me into...Got any resources bookmarked for helping with dopamine?..peat or otherwise?

This is great for increasing dopamine: Mucuna Organic Extract - L-DOPA - Lost Empire Herbs

One of the things that hurts the most is the more you learn about health, the more you realize how bad the people in your life that you love are damaging themselves and no matter what you say or do to try and help them, it's most likely going to fall on deaf ears.

[DrivenToRecover]

This is great for increasing dopamine: Mucuna Organic Extract - L-DOPA - Lost Empire Herbs

One of the things that hurts the most is the more you learn about health, the more you realize how bad the people in your life that you love are damaging themselves and no matter what you say or do to try and help them, it's most likely going to fall on deaf ears.

Yes. That was one of the herbs that I was most excited to take. I've tried l-tyrosine and 5-htp(which I guess is actually bad for you? bc of serotonin increase?) without noticing much. As soon as its back in stock I will get some.

Man. That hits really close to home for me. I've had a lot of those type of thoughts come to me in meditation. Another thought I've had while meditating is a possible explanation. Stick with me here haha tell me if you agree.

Health is a spectrum (like a 1-10) not a "yes you are healthy" or a "no you aren't." And usually the change on that 1-10 scale goes up and down so slowly that you get used to whatever you feel like. It becomes the new norm.
Because of that your negative actions are usually very far removed from the consequences when it comes to health.

Say I offer a person a piece of cake. Most people would eat the cake, even though they know that its unhealthy for them. Why? because the negative health implications of that single piece of cake are minuscule. Compare that to that minute of heaven where your system is flooded with dopamine from all of the sugar and other ingredients that scientists have concocted. The average person gives in and eats it.

But for me, I've had an experience where my health went from a 7 to a 1 in a week's time. It wasn't gradual at all. I wouldn't wish that week I had on anybody, but because of that experience, I have an entirely new appreciation for the blessing that health is...I'm not eating the damn cake ever again. lol

One of the biggest motivating factors for me is that I know all of the things that went down to a 1 (neurosteroids, hormones, libido, ect) were only at a 7 before. I can't wait till the day I pass 7 and eventually get to a 10.

[Cdsnuts]

Yup... the Spectrum, Shades of Grey, different levels, etc. And that's exactly how people get into trouble in losing their health over a period of months and years. Yet when they get a diagnosis of say cancer or heart disease, they act as if it just happened to them, when in reality it has been something that's been building over the course of many years dictated by their consistent poor lifestyle choices.

On the other side of the coin, Health builds the same way... Slowly but surely over the course of many weeks months and years. This is what I'm CONSTANTLY trying to instill in people who are trying to get better. Because of the mindset I just spoke of, they think they got sick in an instant so they think they're going to get better in an instant as well, and that's just not how it works.

That's why I always say TIME + CONSISTENCY = RESULTS.

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