5a-DHP

[Atticas]

Well the Preg,DHEA,Prog combo definitely seems to do something. That, combined with creatine, weightlifting and NoFap I walk around with supreme confidence. I feel a lot more social, girls stare at me and strike up conversations.
I also do daily mobility work, meditation and cold showers.
My diet is not great atm, I still eat grains like rice and gluten free oats to bulk up and gain weight. But no sugary crap, processed foods etc.
Wish I had more money to invest in herbs but that is just the situation atm

Ayyyyyyyyy, not much wrong with dat white rice tho fammmmm

[5 alpha victim]

I'm pretty sure I've obliterated my estrogen using this stuff. Coming off my last R Andro cycle last month I have been using this daily in tune with pine pollen. I'm feeling bad ass but I've got a lot of the low estrogen sides.....Dry skin, sluggishness, etc.

Did the 5adhp obliterate your estrogen or did the R andro?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[5 alpha victim]

DHEA and preg? or DHEA and prog? Either one can work. They both helped me big time. Preg strongly converts directly in progesterone.

I found I can take progesterone when combined with DHEA, my libido goes up and stress goes way down. I also can sleep like a rock taken at any time compared to 5a-DHP when taken too late can be stimulating. Despite the bad rep progesterone gets for males it actually can be very beneficial. We know that progesterone and pregnenolone are both depleted in patients who either take or taken finasteride. High doses of oral progesterone were shown to increase DHT, T and increase prostate size while reducing estrogen. LH and FSH did not change so zero suppression. Human equivalent dose would be 200mg-400mg of progesterone.

http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/122997

Both 5a-dhp and preg can increase progesterone, but you can try taking straight progesterone you will definitely feel it. It would be similar to 5a-dhp but safer since it is further up the chain. Any steroid that is closer to cholesterol in the hormonal chain is always going to be safer. Similar to 5a-dhp but more of euphoric type feeling and much stronger in terms of it will put out in terms of sleep. I used it prior to before 5a-DHP ever came out, I felt kinda of puffy after a few days so I dropped it and never took it again. When I added 5mg of DHEA with the progesterone dose the side effects went away, libido went up and I don't get puffy. The biggest help I found from pure progesterone is the resistance to stress and lasts much longer, stuff is more stronger than 5a-dhp IMO for that purpose. Since progesterone has strong estrogen anatagonism, adding DHEA will only go the DHT route leading to greater androgenic effects. Just make sure you eat enough carbs/sugar, progesterone can put you in a temporary hyperthyroid state if you are very deficient because it causes the other hormonal glands to regulate and normalize.

I assume using androsterone could work too instead of DHEA, but DHEA would be safer. Just experiment with some stuff and if you do, do not go over 15mg DHEA daily. So the most you can is 5mg split into 3 doses otherwise any more than that will go to estrogen. I would just start with pure progesterone and if you notice any similar anti androgenic type symptoms add the dhea in.

I decided to end my 5adhp run today and would like to get your input on a couple of things. It's been one month and I'm pleased with the results. I was going to go for six weeks but I decided to stop at four because the lower estrogen levels seem to be causing some minor issues. Mainly mild fluid retention on the sides of my knee caps. I have been reading about joint issues in the knees eventually leading to fluid build up in that area. Seeing that low estrogen can be hard on the joints, I am assuming that the lower estrogen pushed a mild joint issue that was already a factor over the edge leading to the fluid retention.( I am sure intense sking every weekend and doing more squats to prepare for sking has not helped this issue either). I also seem to have "leveled out" with the benefits that I have seen from this so I figure its all of a more good time to stop and hit it with something else anyway. I'm by no means complaining. Overall the benefits outweighed this minor issue and I am not finished with 5adhp.

As far as how I proceed from here I figure I  have options. Do nothing other than the basic protocol for a solid month of herb cycling, healthy diet ect ect.. and let my estrogen levels
recover before doing anything else beyond the basic protocol

OR

Go right into a low dose R andro run (decided against androhard transdermal for now because I have extra R andro I would want to use up before purchasing additional DHT pro hormones) or a progesterone/ pregnenolone/DHEA run

In order to simplify things I'm always going to look at running androsterone and or epiandrosterone in its own category to be ran with nothing else (not even herb cycling). So I'm going to jump right into this or I'm going to try some combination of the prog,preg dhea protocol.

I'm not sure though what I want to do considering the main reason I stopped the 5adhp was because of estrogen reducing concerns which could also easily remain an issue on a R andro run or a prog/dhea or a preg/dhea run considering all of these things inhibit E. For the record I have ran R andro at 300MG per day for six weeks before with no joint/knee issues or other low E issues. So based on what I know thus far for me anyway 5MG of 5aDHP inhibits E more than 300MG of super R andro.

I apologise if this is a dumb question but If i am understand correctly running the DHEA with prog or preg is not to like "balance" estrogen in anyway by preventing it from going to low. Instead it's related to balancing thyroid and cortisol levels and to increase DHT while taking the preg or prog correct?

After my postive experience with 5adhp I'm feeling like the most logical thing to do at this point is to continue to increase things that we know remain low after taking a DHT inhibitor such as preg and prog. However reading in between the lines is leading me to think that preg and or prog will have a greater chance of leaving me in the semi tanked estrogen state that I'm currently in than R andro would....and I do want to continue to stay on something that we know knocks the shit out of PFS.

If I have to chill for a little while and take nothing it's not a major issue. What do you think?


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[5 alpha victim]

It can't hurt unless the caffeine is too much for you at this stage of the game.

When I tested it out I took it preworkout with caffeine and liked the effects.

I'm going to keep this in mind. I was a little worried that it could be to much for me at this point. I am deff going to add in the caffeine I'm just not sure exactly when.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[Maxout777]

Did the 5adhp obliterate your estrogen or did the R andro?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

I think 5aDHP combined with Pine Pollen did it. Probably had lower E coming off the R Andro anyway, and then this knocked it down farther. Seems to be getting better though, was mainly just dry skin and sluggishness.

[5 alpha victim]

I think 5aDHP combined with Pine Pollen did it. Probably had lower E coming off the R Andro anyway, and then this knocked it down farther. Seems to be getting better though, was mainly just dry skin and sluggishness.

That's what I thought you said. 5adhp knocked my estrogen down more than R andro has in the past. I'm sure in your case coming off the R Andro and going right into the 5adhp contributed to this.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

I decided to end my 5adhp run today and would like to get your input on a couple of things. It's been one month and I'm pleased with the results. I was going to go for six weeks but I decided to stop at four because the lower estrogen levels seem to be causing some minor issues. Mainly mild fluid retention on the sides of my knee caps. I have been reading about joint issues in the knees eventually leading to fluid build up in that area. Seeing that low estrogen can be hard on the joints, I am assuming that the lower estrogen pushed a mild joint issue that was already a factor over the edge leading to the fluid retention.( I am sure intense sking every weekend and doing more squats to prepare for sking has not helped this issue either). I also seem to have "leveled out" with the benefits that I have seen from this so I figure its all of a more good time to stop and hit it with something else anyway. I'm by no means complaining. Overall the benefits outweighed this minor issue and I am not finished with 5adhp.

As far as how I proceed from here I figure I  have options. Do nothing other than the basic protocol for a solid month of herb cycling, healthy diet ect ect.. and let my estrogen levels
recover before doing anything else beyond the basic protocol

OR

Go right into a low dose R andro run (decided against androhard transdermal for now because I have extra R andro I would want to use up before purchasing additional DHT pro hormones) or a progesterone/ pregnenolone/DHEA run

In order to simplify things I'm always going to look at running androsterone and or epiandrosterone in its own category to be ran with nothing else (not even herb cycling). So I'm going to jump right into this or I'm going to try some combination of the prog,preg dhea protocol.

I'm not sure though what I want to do considering the main reason I stopped the 5adhp was because of estrogen reducing concerns which could also easily remain an issue on a R andro run or a prog/dhea or a preg/dhea run considering all of these things inhibit E. For the record I have ran R andro at 300MG per day for six weeks before with no joint/knee issues or other low E issues. So based on what I know thus far for me anyway 5MG of 5aDHP inhibits E more than 300MG of super R andro.

I apologise if this is a dumb question but If i am understand correctly running the DHEA with prog or preg is not to like "balance" estrogen in anyway by preventing it from going to low. Instead it's related to balancing thyroid and cortisol levels and to increase DHT while taking the preg or prog correct?

After my postive experience with 5adhp I'm feeling like the most logical thing to do at this point is to continue to increase things that we know remain low after taking a DHT inhibitor such as preg and prog. However reading in between the lines is leading me to think that preg and or prog will have a greater chance of leaving me in the semi tanked estrogen state that I'm currently in than R andro would....and I do want to continue to stay on something that we know knocks the shit out of PFS.

If I have to chill for a little while and take nothing it's not a major issue. What do you think?


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Try this. Take progesterone and DHEA together around dinner time/before bed once a day. Start with 5mg of each (prog/DHEA). DHEA counters any anti androgenic activity prog has, but they also work in synergy because progesterone blocks the estrogen pathway and when DHEA is administered together the DHEA can only go the DHT route, which you want. You can either add back in 5a-DHP in or just take a break from it either way is fine. You are still going to get some downstream conversion of allopreg from the progesterone anyways.

If your estrogen is going too low back off on the doses. They are all based on a positive feedback mechanism in the body so regardless of what you are doing (and staying at physiological doses) you are only pushing your body back in the right direction.

I would say continue the herbs if they are helping (they work very similar to the hormones by modulating cortisol, estrogen, testosterone, DHT and prolactin) and try the prog/dhea combo. The only reason I got started on prog again is after I saw that study showing the oral prog increased T, DHT and prostate size big time.

R andro can help, but again if you stack too many anti estrogens together you have a good chance of tanking E especially with androsterone. It was shown that only 2mg of androsterone can inhibit aromatase up to 90%, which is probably why pine pollen works so well because it only needs to contain a small amount of androsterone to be effective.

[5 alpha victim]

Try this. Take progesterone and DHEA together around dinner time/before bed once a day. Start with 5mg of each (prog/DHEA). DHEA counters any anti androgenic activity prog has, but they also work in synergy because progesterone blocks the estrogen pathway and when DHEA is administered together the DHEA can only go the DHT route, which you want. You can either add back in 5a-DHP in or just take a break from it either way is fine. You are still going to get some downstream conversion of allopreg from the progesterone anyways.

If your estrogen is going too low back off on the doses. They are all based on a positive feedback mechanism in the body so regardless of what you are doing (and staying at physiological doses) you are only pushing your body back in the right direction.

I would say continue the herbs if they are helping (they work very similar to the hormones by modulating cortisol, estrogen, testosterone, DHT and prolactin) and try the prog/dhea combo. The only reason I got started on prog again is after I saw that study showing the oral prog increased T, DHT and prostate size big time.

R andro can help, but again if you stack too many anti estrogens together you have a good chance of tanking E especially with androsterone. It was shown that only 2mg of androsterone can inhibit aromatase up to 90%, which is probably why pine pollen works so well because it only needs to contain a small amount of androsterone to be effective.

Im sold. This will be the next thing I do outside of the normal protocol. 5mg of prog/dhea before bed. I decided I am going to hold off for just a little bit though just to recalibrate and to see how much if any of the improvements that I got from the 5adhp stick around after discontinuing.  Today is day three and besides my sleep going down a couple of notches I still feel like I'm still taking it. I think I remember reading on the Ray Pete forum somewhere that 5adhp may "stay in the cells". Not sure what that means but I am kinda hoping there is some truth to it.

I forgot that small amounts of androsterone is in pine pollen. Guess that explains why the pine pollen/5adhp combo crashed maxout's estrogen.

As of now are you taking the prog/dhea combo with 5adhp or have you dropped the 5adhp for now?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[theshogun]

Can I get same effect from progesterone cream together with DHEA? I don't want to buy pills until I have used up the cream. It's Paraben free fyi

[TubZy]

Im sold. This will be the next thing I do outside of the normal protocol. 5mg of prog/dhea before bed. I decided I am going to hold off for just a little bit though just to recalibrate and to see how much if any of the improvements that I got from the 5adhp stick around after discontinuing.  Today is day three and besides my sleep going down a couple of notches I still feel like I'm still taking it. I think I remember reading on the Ray Pete forum somewhere that 5adhp may "stay in the cells". Not sure what that means but I am kinda hoping there is some truth to it.

I forgot that small amounts of androsterone is in pine pollen. Guess that explains why the pine pollen/5adhp combo crashed maxout's estrogen.

As of now are you taking the prog/dhea combo with 5adhp or have you dropped the 5adhp for now?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

I have been off 5a-DHP for about two weeks or so now. Cool man sounds good, keep it up. Well, topical 5a-dhp can prolon the half life longer since it stays in the skin rather than get processed through the liver and excreted which is much quicker. But overall, 5a-dhp, prog, preg, dhea etc. all upregulate your natural levels so as you are taking it you are still pushing the body in the right direction. I think you should be fine dropping 5a-dhp for now at least, while you are going to use prog