Paleo Diet + Carb Back loading Question

[TubZy]

I have all of the science break down from Kiefer. So for science minded individuals, that is where you're going to want to look. It works for me as advertised.

I had no trouble during the day staying carb free at all because of the large amount of carbs I would smash the night before. Non what so ever. So regardless of what "studies" say, I take real world experience over what someone in a lab says, who is running an experiment based on variable inputs and NOT on themselves. My experience and the personal experience of others means more to me. Simply because it's real world outcomes...

You know....one thing I've noticed over the years about people who are very science minded and focus on the minutia of detail, while being brilliant, alot of times they miss the Forrest for the trees. They're TOO focused on the details to notice the bigger picture. That's where they go wrong. I'm trying to think of a clever example here to illustrate my point, one escapes me right now. But lets say you're looking at the planet from space. You can see the whole planet. You can see what is happening of the continents, with the oceans, with the weather, etc. I get a snap shot of the WHOLE thing. If you take a telescope from a satellite and focus down on the surface of the planet, you can see what is going on with individuals on that planet. But just because you can see them, and what they are doing, you no longer have the correct view as to what is going on in the bigger picture. Not the best example, but most of the time alot of these researches need to TAKE A STEP BACK from what they are looking at and look at it in in more complete way.

Yeah...I know you're big on studies. But studies didn't get me to where I am, so I take them with a grain of salt. Alot of times they're skewed in one direction or the other depending on the outcomes the scientists want. There were probably a ton of studies on the safety of Propecia, if you get my drift. Many of them just don't hold weight to me.

Instead, why don't you create you OWN studies from experience. See how you do with backloading by keeping track of the different carb intakes and how many grams you took the night before, etc. That would hold much more weight then some random, scientifically irrelevant study.

Lol....there is that science mind at work again. Forrest for the trees man, forrest for the trees. Taking charcoal would make sense during an acute toxicity issue. But again...This does not, and cannot, nor ever will, compare to the power of an extended fast.

Not even close.

These studies are done on acute toxicity issues. That is not the case with most fasters. If you're experiencing acute toxicity then you better go the hospital, not a fasting center. Fasting and the administration of charcoal are two completely different things for two completely different experiences.

When you fast, you detox every cell of all cellular waste. Unless you're experiencing an acute toxic over load due to the things listed in the study, the charcoal isn't going to do ANYTHING in this regards.

It's not going to remove toxins that are stored at the cellular level

It's not going to remove ANYTHING stored in fat cells. These cells are broken down during the fast for energy and the waste inside them is then processed out.

it's not going to remove YEARS of built up cellular metabolic waste.

But more importantly, it's not going to provide the profound rest that is obtained during an extended fast.

I was going to say, here again is where a study falls short because it doesn't focus on the WHOLE picture. But the study isn't even comparing the correct thing. It's not 100% about detox. While that is a huge part of it, it's also about resting your digestion.

By stopping the digestive engine, you signal to your body that it can really dig out the deep stuff now....the stuff that charcoal wouldn't do anything for and wouldn't come close to touching. The stuff that is stored deep, deep within the tissues.

Once this digestive engine stops, the reversal starts.

Charcoal is no match for an extended fast. None. It doesn't even compare on the same level.

If you were to undertake one yourself, you would EASILY see this. Easily.

Anyone who has experienced an extended fast will tell you the same thing. It's always seems like it's the folks who are not on board for whatever reason, are the ones that are looking for "studies" to tell them they are right. Studies are no match for real world experience.

That being said, I just want to preface... I'm not here to try and PROVE anything to anyone. I'm simply here in the capacity to help people and guide them through the process of curing their PFS.

I'm sharing what has without a doubt worked for me. People can choose to take this information based on my experiences and the experiences of others, or not. It really is up to them, and honestly, doesn't matter to me what others believe based on nothing but studies. These studies have really done nothing to help these guys gain a better foot hold on their lives, at all. If they did, there would be no more PFS.

They're in a position where they have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

I appreciate all that you've shared here, and I hope you don't take this message the wrong way, because that's not my intention.

Every once in awhile I find myself having to "defend" my position, and honestly, it's really a drain on my energy and focus, lol.

The people that choose to go all in and gain these experiences first hand, will see the power in these things and know what it is I'm sharing.

I feel that sometimes I can't properly put into words exactly how and why these things work, and I can see why others would be skeptical, especially if they base all of their decisions on scientific studies. This can obviously be a source of frustration to me, because I want to be as clear as I possibly can.

His name is John Keifer, right? Lol, to discredit "science" but then believe a guy whose background is based entirely around science John Keifer exercise scientist and physicist running a single page site selling an e-book Carb Nite

I agree, I do think a lot of studies in the weight loss, bodybuilding, cosmetic etc. industry are very sketchy as many of them are sponsored by a major supplement company themselves that is why I always say the older the study better. But keto studies go all the way back to early 1900's, for carb backloading you would at least think there would be some sort of just generalized study doesn't even have to be that complex, I just couldn't find anything.

Lol...science is good and I do agree that we shouldn't base ALL of it around everything, but again if we didn't even use some science and studies we would be back to the "broscience" stuff, which is an example of the bodybuilding.com forum, if you have been there lol. So if you just completely ignore studies and then someone say take this stuff you will get hyooge bro!

FYI, you know your favorite product "Androhard" and the former owner/friend of the company that created it called Primordial Performance, Eric, was ALL based around science. Eric always had studies for everything and all of his products (he based androhard around the primo/DHT study) which is how he developed many of his products, he even posted many of the studies in his product description. It is the type of study that matters, if the study is recent and sponsored by a supplement company (or drug company like Merk in regards to propecia, which you mentioned above) etc. yeah for sure it definitely plays a factor. Eric didn't do that either he came across some good studies and of course was one of the first bringing legit "pro hormones" to market.

OK, so now onto the charcoal stuff lol, which is natural by the way, just like herbs and it has been used for centuries just like fasting.

"Lol....there is that science mind at work again. Forrest for the trees man, forrest for the trees. Taking charcoal would make sense during an acute toxicity issue. But again...This does not, and cannot, nor ever will, compare to the power of an extended fast."

It helps during acute toxicity and that is what it was studied for, but it helps even for chronic issues. It can reduce endotoxin big time and lower serotonin (90%+ of serotonin is in the gut) and cross the blood brain barrier.


"These studies are done on acute toxicity issues. That is not the case with most fasters. If you're experiencing acute toxicity then you better go the hospital, not a fasting center. Fasting and the administration of charcoal are two completely different things for two completely different experiences."


The reason I mentioned acute toxicity is b/c you said the benefits of fasting was that it could for removing pharma drugs, BPA's, xenosestrogens etc. all which charcoal can do too, so I wouldn't say they are not completely different, but charcoal does much more than just detox.

Here is also a study showing charcoal significantly removing BPA's.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ac503814j



"When you fast, you detox every cell of all cellular waste. Unless you're experiencing an acute toxic over load due to the things listed in the study, the charcoal isn't going to do ANYTHING in this regards."

Yes, right, but you also starving and stress the cell of metabolic energy. Inflammatory markers greatly drop in a fasted state, but that is not necessarily a good thing. From the extreme rise in cortisol, the immune system is greatly suppressed so inflammatory markers would appear much lower. Again, if you were starving a known parasite in your body or fungus, fasting could be an option, but there are also many other natural alternative options for that too (aspirin for example). For certain infections, fasting has the potential to make them worse, due to the severe immune suppression and lack of nutrients and slowed metabolism (low thyroid = low body temp = breeding ground for new potential bacteria). High cellular oxygen environment burns up any bacteria and prevents any new from pathogens from taking hold (bacteria cant live in high heat environment) along with keeping viruses suppressed. They can't live in it, same concept how your body works when battling an infection and you get a "fever".


"It's not going to remove toxins that are stored at the cellular level"

Actually that is exactly how it works, cascara even works MORE on a cellular level.

"It's not going to remove ANYTHING stored in fat cells. These cells are broken down during the fast for energy and the waste inside them is then processed out."


Yes, they are broken down because the body is turning into a severely catabolic state. Your body is literally doing anything it can to survive.


"it's not going to remove YEARS of built up cellular metabolic waste."


We don't know that though, that is pure speculation. Same concept goes for circulating hormones vs tissue level saturation, one could have low circulating estrogen vs high estrogen tissue level concentration, which would not show up on a blood test. Again, cellular metabolic waste from what? If your metabolism is working properly the build up of cellular metabolic waste would be cleared out.


"I was going to say, here again is where a study falls short because it doesn't focus on the WHOLE picture. But the study isn't even comparing the correct thing. It's not 100% about detox. While that is a huge part of it, it's also about resting your digestion."


"resting your digestion", let's be honest, what exactly does that even mean lol? What are you resting and from what? Digestive issues are an underlying cause of something else, either an infection and/or slowed metabolism. Hydrochloric acid in the stomach is stimulated by high oxygen consumption to the cell, which again would go back to proper cellular function and at the very base of that would be a proper functioning thyroid. That is the reason why coffee helps with digestion. Caffeine acts exactly like active thyroid in the body and also contains magnesium and niacin, all precursors to HCL in stomach for proper digestion.

"By stopping the digestive engine, you signal to your body that it can really dig out the deep stuff now....the stuff that charcoal wouldn't do anything for and wouldn't come close to touching. The stuff that is stored deep, deep within the tissues."


The signal to your body is a stress response, the reason it can dig deep stuff out is it because it has no choice but to start using your body's own tissue for energy in order to survive since glycogen reserves and are depleted and no external source of nutrients are no longer being consumed. And charcoal actually has great penetration, that is my point when I referenced it can significantly cross the blood brainer, this was at least shown in studies so we have some sort of basis. Fasting we really don't know how "deep" it can get, which may take even longer during a fast which could be doing even more damage than good at that point.

"Charcoal is no match for an extended fast. None. It doesn't even compare on the same level.
If you were to undertake one yourself, you would EASILY see this. Easily."


My longest fast was 3 days and it was a water fast, although I did feel temporarily better I also felt worse at the same time. My experience shouldn't deter anyone from trying, just like you said everyone is different. BUT, I was also in deep ketosis for a many months and I did feel better, but I was running on stress hormones with a low body temperature so not ideal. I feel the same way I did in deep ketosis now running back on glucose again just from changing my diet around and focusing on meats, gelatin and fruits, milk.

I'm not saying fasting doesn't work for a certain condition, but at the same time there are also alternatives to take a look at.

In terms of studies, if we just ignored the studies and just tried new things and went by how we "feel" we might as well say prolactin is healthy, serotonin is healthy etc. since they can make you "feel" good, but that doesn't mean it is healthy. You still need some science as a backbone to understand the basic mechanics of what is going. I'm not say all studies are good, I actually hate many of the studies put out by the mainstream bodybuilding and supplement industry.

Lost Empire Herb's entire page for each herb has references and studies for all the claims they make. Should we just ignore those too since they were "running an experiment based on variable inputs and NOT on themselves"? Should we ignore the study that DHT stimulates its own synthesis a positive feedback mechanism which is one of the main reasons that prohormones work better than synthetic AAS? Should we just ignore all of the studies showing finasteride showing a massive decrease in allopreg along with many other protective steroids since the authors of the study probably had their own "agenda" and it wasn't on themselves? Where do we draw the line? I think there just needs to be balance, you can't look at all science and make a conclusion, you also can just ignore the science and make a conclusion.

Oh and I do use activated charcoal personally a few times per week.