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  1. #231
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Hulk Smash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slader1 View Post
    I am dealing with a similar issue, I have hand aches, foot aches wrist aches, and aches and numbness all through my face and even neck. It's gotten qutie bad and demoralizing.

    I will try your b2/b6 idea and get back to you. It is likely I have not had enough b-vitamins, and I have been taking niacinamide (b3) on its own for many years. I also took aspirin+k2 for a long time, which may have overly suppressed my estrogen.

    Perhaps my best bet is a b-complex, with all the b vitamins?

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    I am dealing with a similar issue, I have hand aches, foot aches wrist aches, and aches and numbness all through my face and even neck. It's gotten qutie bad and demoralizing.

    I will try your b2/b6 idea and get back to you. It is likely I have not had enough b-vitamins, and I have been taking niacinamide (b3) on its own for many years. I also took aspirin+k2 for a long time, which may have overly suppressed my estrogen.

    Perhaps my best bet is a b-complex, with all the b vitamins?
    B2/B6 may help you. Its the only supplementation that eased the pain and numbness for me. 100 mg twice per day.
    I followed this instruction from an online source and am grateful it worked.
    The site stated it may take about 2 weeks to start feeling improvement. It was a similar timeline for me.

    I'm currently taking a B complex instead of the individual B2/B6 I started with. However, I sometimes take only half the dosage due to the other B's and folate present. Not sure if its wise to take double the recommendation on the label. I will do more research as time permits to see if double dosage on all B's is ok in our situation.

    Also bear in mind, the herb cycle has plenty of vitamins and minerals too...
    Moderation with a B complex is probably best.

  2. #232
    SwoleSource Member Feedback Score 0
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk Smash View Post
    B2/B6 may help you. Its the only supplementation that eased the pain and numbness for me. 100 mg twice per day.
    I followed this instruction from an online source and am grateful it worked.
    The site stated it may take about 2 weeks to start feeling improvement. It was a similar timeline for me.

    I'm currently taking a B complex instead of the individual B2/B6 I started with. However, I sometimes take only half the dosage due to the other B's and folate present. Not sure if its wise to take double the recommendation on the label. I will do more research as time permits to see if double dosage on all B's is ok in our situation.

    Also bear in mind, the herb cycle has plenty of vitamins and minerals too...
    Moderation with a B complex is probably best.
    Alright I may just go out and pick up a b-complex right away. I ordered b2/b6 individually as well.

    Do you drink coffee? I used to be drinking many cups each day to help with fatigue and brain fog, and I think this may have messed up my nerves too.

    I am still on the fence about the herb cycle. It is pretty expensive and I am worried all those herbs may stress my liver or kidneys or something. Also, I didn't find that any of the herbs claim to increase 5-ar.

    If people keep giving good reports on the herbs then I will definitely try it, though.

  3. #233
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Bankai9000's Avatar
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    @slader1 nothing will stress your liver as much as the typical raypeatdiet XDD

    raypeatdiet is gold for fast oxidizers, it's great. And PFS people are either very slow or very fast, give a slow oxidizer the raypeatdiet and he will not only be balding way faster, but also ruining his body in every single aspect
    That's why Rays and Dannys approach work only for a VERY limited group of people

    just youtube or read about the Herbs/Adaptogens, it will put your mind at ease

  4. #234
    A 1k Club Member Feedback Score 0 jacknap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk Smash View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions. I tried K2 with MK supplementation fot about a month, this was probably 1 or 2 years ago. The result was random odd chest aches/pains. Mostly felt like it was bone pain and perhaps a bit of neck discomfort. At that time it just wasnt working for me but might work for others. I discontinued it and havent supplemented K or M since.

    I'm aware excess B6 can cause nerve damage but it hasnt been a problem for me. Some sources claim that lack of B6 causes the same nerve damage. It seems to have been nothing but beneficial to me, specifically in improving my hands, wrists pain, weakness, numbness and tingles. There was definitely some nerve damage going on and some of that still lingers today but atleast Im not entirely incapcitated now.
    I had problems with K2 too but that's cuz it thickens your blood I think that's why the chest pains. I dropped it and never get that. Or if I do andro / pine pollen I make sure I drink potassium for excess coconut water.
    From rock bottom to rockstar, baby.

  5. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bankai9000 View Post
    @slader1 nothing will stress your liver as much as the typical raypeatdiet XDD

    raypeatdiet is gold for fast oxidizers, it's great. And PFS people are either very slow or very fast, give a slow oxidizer the raypeatdiet and he will not only be balding way faster, but also ruining his body in every single aspect
    That's why Rays and Dannys approach work only for a VERY limited group of people

    just youtube or read about the Herbs/Adaptogens, it will put your mind at ease
    So then how can you tell if you are a slow or fast oxidizer? I would drink a ton of coffee on the Ray Peat diet because there is a study showing that caffiene increases DHT and progesterone in the brain. However it lowers gaba, which causes anxiety and after years of drinking it by the 20oz big mug, I've decided to come off it. In order to drink this much coffee I had to eat a lot of fruit and sugar and juice to keep my blood sugar from crashing. If I did not, I would get a spike of adrenaline and be even more uncomfortable than normal.

    Anyways, what herbs would you recommend to start out with if I'm going that route?

  6. #236
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Bankai9000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slader1 View Post
    So then how can you tell if you are a slow or fast oxidizer? I would drink a ton of coffee on the Ray Peat diet because there is a study showing that caffiene increases DHT and progesterone in the brain. However it lowers gaba, which causes anxiety and after years of drinking it by the 20oz big mug, I've decided to come off it. In order to drink this much coffee I had to eat a lot of fruit and sugar and juice to keep my blood sugar from crashing. If I did not, I would get a spike of adrenaline and be even more uncomfortable than normal.

    Anyways, what herbs would you recommend to start out with if I'm going that route?
    I don't think it matters, Not what anyone new wants to hear, but probably the more herbs the better xD. I just read about every single herb and made up my mind which one fits "more" to my personal problems. But I'm not treating PFS like "PFS" anyway, more like a accumulated amount of single problems and am trying to attack those from all angles^^, but I got a list in my thread somewhere which I am using.

    From my understanding Ray Peat diet "slows" people down, but most people in this modern lifestyle are already "slow".
    I did a hairtest to find out what type I was and I was very slow, toxic high amounts of calcium and copper, magnesium nonexistent. Which all fit with my high fruit, high milk, much alc and stress-chasing lifestyle for years. (Steady)High fruit intake can be as taxing on the liver as alcohol abuse.

  7. #237
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Hulk Smash's Avatar
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    So I just realized what could be a vital error in recovery regimen:

    I've been VERY INCONSISTENT with iodine supplementation. SMH

    wtf...I was wondering why certain things still aren't clicking. I'm thinking its probably been thyroid related.

    Will finish my Lugol's iodine. I'm applying it to the skin and waiting for absorption.

    CD, is lugol's skin application ok? Or drinking it is better?
    Also do you consider this a key need for those of us displaying signs of under-active thyroid?

    P.S. thyroid is very important to bone metabolism. Calcitonin, calcium, osteoblasts/osteoclasts etc. are regulated via the gland. Under-active gland = possible bone resorption

  8. #238
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Hulk Smash's Avatar
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    Just want to remind the importance of following EVERYTHING laid out for us.
    Im convinced lack of iodine supplementation is the likely reason for

    a. advanced bone resorption (bone loss)
    b. Not getting to 100% already

    Since adding iodine daily I have very little to no fatigue/lethargy, yawning decreased by 90%, and I have better overall mood//motivation.

    I can only estimate that other residual side effects will improve with time and consistency. Now its a matter of continuous COMPLETE regimen support to slowly increase the bodies production of hormones and normalization of metabolic functions.

    Must follow it 100% to get complete benefits.

    I will consider adding calcitonin, rehmmania herb and calcium hydroxyapatite.

    The tricky part with adding bone supplementation is to not inhibit your own bodies production of bone metabolism via thyroid gland. The other issue is not knowing if minerals from bones are somehow being diverted to cells, tissue, organs and thereby
    clogging them.

    I personally will take a conservative approach of taking these only a few days per week while continuing the rest of regimen. I will supplement bone a few weeks and then take a few weeks break(cycle). I will document how Im feeling with the slow bone rebuild.

    Hopefully this will help my bones and still let my thyroid continue healing and waking up full production of bone metabolites.

    Bones are considered a type of living organ by many in the field of health. Do not underestimate its ability to recover, it is living tissue.

    I've also found that using Shea Butter on skin affected areas is VERY helpful in maintaining skin flexibility, youthfulness, wrinkle reduction. It is important to keep these areas "alive" and not ignore them in order to improve recovery results. Dont let the skin die or settle into an undesirable state. You want skin tissue to retain its elasticty in order to adjust with the rest of recovery.

    This is pretty much a repeat of everything CD has laid out. Hopefully the outloud meditation/calculation will encourage myself and the forum.

    I will update next time with specific body measurements so we can see what progress is achieved every few months.

    Oh and before I forget again...
    Happy New Year CD!
    Wish you all the best in 2020!
    Last edited by Hulk Smash; 01-13-2020 at 06:54 AM.

  9. #239
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Hulk Smash's Avatar
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    Left Hand Measurement

    Hand length 20 - 20.3 m
    Base of hand to edge of middle finger

    Width 8.5 m
    Palm of hand

    Measure taken by contour pencil trace of entire hand. More accurate measures will be taken and shared asap.

    Bone loss seems to be only in diameter and not length.

  10. #240
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Hulk Smash's Avatar
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    OK guys I've updated the BONE LOSS thread to include all info needed to recover bone loss.
    Its pretty much the holy grail update to recover bones or make sure you don't lose them or even build on what you already have.

    I'll probably be gone again for a while just sticking to the regimen and taking care of business in life. I'm improving and so will everyone.

    I'll check in again to update with more links for bone mass increase and my progress.

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