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  1. #71
    Established Member Feedback Score 1 (100%) Grape Ape's Avatar
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    Where is your blood work?

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5 alpha victim View Post
    There is enough info out their that makes it clear Vitamin E mixed tocopherols can reduce estrogen. Its also clear that many PFS guys like myself got worse after reducing estrogen. If I am following your post correctly you got worse only a short time after adding in the vitamin E mixed tocopherols. That makes it pretty obvious that lowering your estrogen was the cause. It's highly unlikely that a low carb diet is the cause of your continued worsening of symptoms expecially when you consider how much worse you got. But that's just my opinion.

    With PFS when we take something that makes  us worse sometimes we just don't get better because we stop taking it like normal people do. This happened to me when I took an AI. It put me to a lower level that I was at before I even took it and it took me probable two years go come back to my prior baseline. I would just forget about what happened and when it happened and just stick to the game plan and be careful about trying anything outside Cds normal protocol. Staying away from the blends will probable be a good idea to. If you want B complex and vitamin D just buy them individually.

    At the end of the day the herb cycling, eating healthy and working out to include sprints should get your hormones all leveled out. It may take a while but at least it's guaranteed to work. That's really the easy part at this point for me. It's all the evidence that's pointing towards altered nurosteriods and gut inflammation as being major pieces of the puzzle with us that I'm more worried about as this is not as easily as treatable than simply getting your self to have healthy hormone levels naturally at the basic level such as free T, total T, estrogen and DHT.  And again you don't need to take anything to reduce estrogen. That should fix it self once you increase your T naturally over a long period of time.

    Just my two cents anyway from a guy still recovering.
    I just had suspected I had low E symptoms based on what a few other people have felt when taking an AI already being affected by PFS, and we should all know remember that blood work isn't 100% credible with this condition.

    Did you do anything else to help reduce these symptoms? Only things I'm currently taking are vitamin C, D3, magnesium and a probiotic.

    Yea I never even intended to reduce my estrogen at all, was just taking vitamin E because I wanted to help out my dry skin.....sucks because I never knew it was an AI.

    I'm still suspicious of the diet contributing, because it can cause metabolic damage, but regardless I just want to try and reverse this. I'm planning on starting the juice feast after my Dr appointment next week, I want to get more blood work if possible from him and also see if he'll give me and Xray for my osteo issues....I need some painkillers this bone and joint pain is insanely progressive....never knew PFS symptoms could progress this fast after initially noticing them.

    Been a little over a week nofap lol, I feel slightly more aggressive (probably why I went on that rant a few days ago lol sorry guys). Herb cycling is what is making me a little nervous as of now, I just don't want to take the herbs that can act as AI's as I'm still suspicious of my symptoms, but I guess I will have to research which ones will be best for my current condition.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Grape Ape View Post
    Where is your blood work?
    They were on page 1 but I'll post them again with updated new tests and also with ranges.


    Labs from 1/24/17

    TSH: 2.75 uIu/mL (0.34 - 5.60 uIu/mL)
    T3 Free: 3.55 PG/mL (2.5 - 3.9 PG/mL)
    DHEA: 213.6 uG/dL (5 - 690 uG/dL)
    Total Estrogens: 88 pg/mL (60 - 190 pg/mL)
    Estradiol: 18 PG/mL (<40 pg/mL)
    Free Testosterone: 62.7 pg/mL (46.0 - 224.0 pg/mL)
    Testosterone: 341.27 NG/dL (175 - 781 NG/dL)
    Vitamin D3: 45 ng/mL (30 - 100 ng/mL)
    Prolactin: 10.4 NG/mL (2.6 - 13.1 NG/mL)
    Glucose: 101 MG/dl (70 - 140 MG/dL)

    Sodium: 136 MMOL/L. (35 - 143 MMOL/L)
    Potassium: 4.2 MMOL/L. (3.6 - 5.1 MMOL/L)
    Chloride: 99 MMOL/L. (98 - 107 MMOL/L)
    C02: 30 MMOL/L. (22 - 30 MMOL/L)
    BUN: 8 MG/dL. (7.0 - 21.0 MG/dL)
    Creatinine: 0.8 MG/dL. ( 0.6 - 1.2 MG/dL)


    New labs as of 2/6/17:

    Cortisol - 11.22 UG/dL (6.7 - 22.6 UG/dL)
    Lactate Dehydrogenase - 114 IU/L (98 - 192 IU/L)
    C-REACTIVE PROTEIN,HIGH SENSIT - 0.05 MG/dL (0.0 - 0.7 MG/dL)
    Sedimentation rate Automated - 2 MM/HR (0 - 15 MM/HR)
    LYME AB IGG - NEGATIVE
    LYME AB IGM - NEGATIVE
    Rheumatoid Factor < 7 IU/mL < 14 IU/mL
    Last edited by Konflict; 02-09-2017 at 06:42 AM.

  3. #73
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by userpff View Post
    Cdnuts I got a couple questions, what vegetables and fruits did you eat on the raw diet and what vegetables did you continue eating when adding meat back. did you eat a lot of green leafy vegetables?
    Please don't randomly jump in on an existing thread with a question that has nothing to do with the original post. If you would like answers to your questions, start a new thread and help build the informative nature of this site. We don't want to litter every post with random questions. Thank you.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    Please don't randomly jump in on an existing thread with a question that has nothing to do with the original post. If you would like answers to your questions, start a new thread and help build the informative nature of this site. We don't want to litter every post with random questions. Thank you.
    Ok will do

  5. #75
    Established Member Feedback Score 1 (100%) Grape Ape's Avatar
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    So it does seem your estrogen is low and free test as well. Total test isn't terribly low, but your prolactin is high. I would def focus on getting the free-t up and prolactin down for sure. Maybe try some B6(P-5-P) for the prolactin and Boron for the free-t. I'm not sure if free-t effects total estrogen, but getting both that and total-t up should help get the estrogen back in range. FYI, I'm no expert on reading blood work.

    Is there any reason a PFS victem can't use clomid?

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grape Ape View Post
    So it does seem your estrogen is low and free test as well. Total test isn't terribly low, but your prolactin is high. I would def focus on getting the free-t up and prolactin down for sure. Maybe try some B6(P-5-P) for the prolactin and Boron for the free-t. I'm not sure if free-t effects total estrogen, but getting both that and total-t up should help get the estrogen back in range. FYI, I'm no expert on reading blood work.

    Is there any reason a PFS victem can't use clomid?
    A majorty of PFS people who tried a clomid restart ended up worse. For me a few years ago an endo put me on a two year clomid restart which took my total T levels from below the normal range to off the charts high which brought my Free T to the normal range and my Estrogen above the normal range. During this time I personally did not get worse but I did not get better. I simply felt nothing. Once the endo seen the sky high estrogen on the labs he gave me an AI and within two weeks I was twice as bad as I was before taking the AI even though the labs showed that the AI did its job by bringing my estrogen perfectly to the mid normal range. Also there are several cases of guys on the PH website getting worse after taking AI's.

    The explanation behind this would probable require concepts that go far beyond my level of intelligence but I'm beginning to suspect that for some guys taking an AI somehow messes up even more their already messed up neurosteriod imbalence. Anyway I'm going to stop now so I don't add to the getting off subject issue lol.
    Last edited by 5 alpha victim; 02-09-2017 at 11:46 PM.

  7. #77
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    Ais damage hormones even further...Blood test don't show anything a lot of times..Bottom line imo is Pfs is what would be considered chemical brain trauma...It is neuro steroids and neuro hormones..It is brain damage..

  8. #78
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    [QUOTE=Konflict;52060]I just had suspected I had low E symptoms based on what a few other people have felt when taking an AI already being affected by PFS, and we should all know remember that blood work isn't 100% credible with this condition.

    Did you do anything else to help reduce these symptoms? Only things I'm currently taking are vitamin C, D3, magnesium and a probiotic.

    Yea I never even intended to reduce my estrogen at all, was just taking vitamin E because I wanted to help out my dry skin.....sucks because I never knew it was an AI.

    I'm still suspicious of the diet contributing, because it can cause metabolic damage, but regardless I just want to try and reverse this. I'm planning on starting the juice feast after my Dr appointment next week, I want to get more blood work if possible from him and also see if he'll give me and Xray for my osteo issues....I need some painkillers this bone and joint pain is insanely progressive....never knew PFS symptoms could progress this fast after initially noticing them.

    Been a little over a week nofap lol, I feel slightly more aggressive (probably why I went on that rant a few days ago lol sorry guys). Herb cycling is what is making me a little nervous as of now, I just don't want to take the herbs that can act as AI's as I'm still suspicious of my symptoms, but I guess I will have to research which ones will be best for my current condition.

    Maybe your right. But the thing is low E would correct itself as soon as you stop taking or doing what's making you have low E and you would no longer have those low E symptoms. That's why I think something else is at play with that.

    The blood work is creditable in the regard that it's showing what our hormones are at that they tested us for. The issue sounds like that it's other factors such as neurosteriods and inflammation that's preventing our bodies from responding to the normal hormone levels that we see in our labs. Anyone who recovered created the perfect environment inside their bodies so that their bodies could correct these issues that it could not other wise correct on its own.

    Im currently reading through CDS website so I can adjust things to resemble his protocol more closely. Once I'm done I'll let you know everything I'm taking. Please keep posted. We can do this together.
    Last edited by 5 alpha victim; 02-09-2017 at 08:42 PM.

  9. #79
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 DrivenToRecover's Avatar
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    I don't want to come on here and hear about people killing themselves or that you think pfs = brain damage.

    Not specifically calling out these two posters at all...just using as examples of a gradual trend I'm seeing as more people become active here.

    I really like being here on this board because we help educate each other and stay positive. I feel like that standard is slipping. Lets change that.
    Last edited by DrivenToRecover; 02-09-2017 at 09:24 PM.
    Its only work until its routine

  10. #80
    A 1k Club Member Feedback Score 0 Maxout777's Avatar
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    New Symptoms that keep Worsening

    Quote Originally Posted by DrivenToRecover View Post
    I don't want to come on here and hear about people killing themselves or that you think pfs = brain damage.

    Not specifically calling out these two posters at all...just using as examples of a gradual trend I'm seeing as more people become active here.

    I really like being here on this board because we help educate each other and stay positive. I feel like that standard is slipping. Lets change that.
    Amen. Couldn't agree more.
    There ain't no traffic along the extra mile.

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