Gonadin

[Durantia37]

I have basically all the most extreme PFS sides to just about the highest degree possible in a still-living organism (just fyi). So yes, shrinkage of all kinds.

Why doesn't everyone with PFS take this instantly and without cease until full recovery? The only negative is you have to eat more glucose...nbd.

It sounds like this would some kind of overall balancing effect at any dose. Has this been your experience? Or you literally felt nothing below 50mg?

Also seems like, while taking this at high doses, you could theoretically take higher doses of e-lowering substances without having to worry about tanking. Is this backed up by experience as well? Res100 and pine pollen tincture, for example, could potentially tank e, but preg would prevent the possibility? While lowering cortisol? Why the fuck isn't everyone on preg.

[TubZy]

I have basically all the most extreme PFS sides to just about the highest degree possible in a still-living organism (just fyi). So yes, shrinkage of all kinds.

Why doesn't everyone with PFS take this instantly and without cease until full recovery? The only negative is you have to eat more glucose...nbd.

It sounds like this would some kind of overall balancing effect at any dose. Has this been your experience? Or you literally felt nothing below 50mg?

Also seems like, while taking this at high doses, you could theoretically take higher doses of e-lowering substances without having to worry about tanking. Is this backed up by experience as well? Res100 and pine pollen tincture, for example, could potentially tank e, but preg would prevent the possibility? While lowering cortisol? Why the fuck isn't everyone on preg.

Beyond me man, I actually tried preg two years ago when I first came off but at a super low dose (50mg) and didn't do shit. Then when the study came out showing PFS patients are severely depleted in progesterone (which also is why they are depleted in allopreg and the further metabolites of progesterone like THDOC etc), it makes sense why high doses are needed since high doses of preg wil dump to progesterone. Using progesterone instead can work too, but it is a little more tricky to get the dose right. That is why I suggest trying high dose preg first because your body will regulate how much prog it gets.

The estrogen is not an issue with preg, but yeah you stack whatever you want with it, doesn't matter. Yes, it would help prevent it, hence why many people actually need to take preg with andro or their estrogen drops too low. I haven't seen many people here try that combo but on RP there are.

The people who don't respond to preg after a week or so of high dose supplementation, I usually just tell them to go directly to progesterone and dhea combo and that works for them.

It is not a 100% silver bullet but it fix many of your issues and of course you are pushing your body back in the right direction.

[hossam]

Hey Tubzy, is it benefecial to use Preg during cycle?
FYR i never use HCG, i use Royal jelly, Pine Pollen, Ashwaganda

[TubZy]

Hey Tubzy, is it benefecial to use Preg during cycle?
FYR i never use HCG, i use Royal jelly, Pine Pollen, Ashwaganda

For sure. Not only preg, but DHEA and vitamin K2 as well. Take a look at this thread when you get a chance, it goes through all the studies and I tested from my experience as well. I used to use HCG a long time ago and I noticed that high doses of preg drop my sack size back to normal the same way HCG does. Vitamin K2 MK4 is probably the only fat soluble vitamin I actually noticed an increase in androgens/decrease in estrogen from. It also mentions thyroid (t3) which I talk a lot about on here already, but I don't think it is 100% necessary. Ashwaganda can increase the conversion of T4 into T3 even a combo of caffeine and aspirin can mimic a lot of T3's functions. The reason I don't mention all of them is b/c sometimes you can do more harm than good (tanking estrogen and cortisol) especially with PFS people whose HPTA is really sensitive so pregnenolone is always the safest place to start.

https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...tamin-k.13505/

I think the herbs are good too not only on cycle but year round. I like the adaptogenic herbs because they modulate cortisol so they can help keep everything in check too, for example like how caffeine can cause an increase in stress hormones if glucose is not adequate. The herbs can help suppress that stress response, same thing as taking them preworkout as they help mitigate the rise in cortisol during training etc. Remember pine pollen includes many of the bioidentical steroids (DHEA, androsterone etc.) hence why it provides a lot of the benefits while on/off cycle specifically related in those studies.

So pregnenolone, DHEA, K2, niacinamide (cofactor enzyme for steroid synthesis), T3 or caffeine/aspirin combo (if needed) and the herbs should be a killer PCT and on cycle support to minimize any shutdown and help keep the body in balance, no need for HCG/clomid etc.

[hossam]

For sure. Not only preg, but DHEA and vitamin K2 as well. Take a look at this thread when you get a chance, it goes through all the studies and I tested from my experience as well. I used to use HCG a long time ago and I noticed that high doses of preg drop my sack size back to normal the same way HCG does. Vitamin K2 MK4 is probably the only fat soluble vitamin I actually noticed an increase in androgens/decrease in estrogen from.

https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...tamin-k.13505/

I think the herbs are good too not only on cycle but year round. Remember pine pollen includes many of the bioidentical steroids (DHEA, androsterone etc.) hence why it provides a lot of the benefits while on/off cycle specifically related in those studies.

Thanks brother, i will be ordering very soon

[coppersocks]

Hey Tubzy, I've gone through the entire thread of that RayPeats that you posted above regarding topical application of DHEA, Preg, Vitamin K and Thyroid. It seems really interesting and a good way to rev up steriodgenesis in the testes (as well as regulate cortisol and estrogen which I think I'm having issues with) and I think it's something I'd like to try at some stage. My nads seem to work in spits and starts at the moment; when they get going for a few days I'm noticeably much more horny and I have a more masculine odor from both my junk and general body, when they're not they still hang low and are warm to the touch which is a nice baseline to have but there's a definite difference to how they feel and my connection to them. This seems like a more direct kick start to them than taking oral preg as I am currently doing. I'm a bit lost however, how do I go about mixing these four chemicals into DMSO at a ratio the ratio suggested? Is there a thread explaining the process that I'm missing? Is it just a case of buying the ingredients and mixing them each time before application and if so, is there brands that you'd recommend as so far my only experience is in buying the tablet forms for ingestion.

[TubZy]

Hey Tubzy, I've gone through the entire thread of that RayPeats that you posted above regarding topical application of DHEA, Preg, Vitamin K and Thyroid. It seems really interesting and a good way to rev up steriodgenesis in the testes (as well as regulate cortisol and estrogen which I think I'm having issues with) and I think it's something I'd like to try at some stage. My nads seem to work in spits and starts at the moment; when they get going for a few days I'm noticeably much more horny and I have a more masculine odor from both my junk and general body, when they're not they still hang low and are warm to the touch which is a nice baseline to have but there's a definite difference to how they feel and my connection to them. This seems like a more direct kick start to them than taking oral preg as I am currently doing. I'm a bit lost however, how do I go about mixing these four chemicals into DMSO at a ratio the ratio suggested? Is there a thread explaining the process that I'm missing? Is it just a case of buying the ingredients and mixing them each time before application and if so, is there brands that you'd recommend as so far my only experience is in buying the tablet forms for ingestion.

How much oral preg are you doing? Also, pine pollen powder would be good for that as well.

Regarding the topical application stuff, that is optional and mainly just pointed to it for references. You don't have to do/try that if you don't want to, but if you were looking at that route the products that most ppl use including me are Haidut's which is Ideal Labs. If you click on any of the products it will bring you to the thread of how it works and how to use etc.

IdeaLabs Online Store - Worldwide Ordering And Delivery
IdeaLabs Online Store - Worldwide Ordering And Delivery - Laboratory Research Chemicals

[coppersocks]

I'm doing 50mg of oral preg a day at the moment and about 15 mg of 5a-DHP if I'm working out, 10 if not.
I was particularly interested in that topical application of those four supplements on the scrotum as mentioned in the thread above as they seem to work directly to increase serum level androgens (DHT. androsterone, etc) much more than orally and in a much shorter time frame. Some guys on that thread seem to have really great results. I guess my question to you would be is there any pitfalls to this method unique to PFS sufferers? Should I worry about tanking my e as you've previously talked about when using the dosages suggested by Haidut? If I do go ahead I'd probably buy the drops of preg and DHEA seperately as opposed to getting Pansterone from ideal labs as the ratio of 1:1 isn't ideal for what haidut describes, I'd get the K2 from there but I'm kinda at a loss as to where to get T3 and not even sure it's legal to buy in Ireland (EDIT: found it as a research chemical)

I imagine I'm best off continuing with the protocol for now but I really want to get a head of this and have a plan of action ready to go once I've done that for a while.

[TubZy]

I'm doing 50mg of oral preg a day at the moment and about 15 mg of 5a-DHP if I'm working out, 10 if not.
I was particularly interested in that topical application of those four supplements on the scrotum as mentioned in the thread above as they seem to work directly to increase serum level androgens (DHT. androsterone, etc) much more than orally and in a much shorter time frame. Some guys on that thread seem to have really great results. I guess my question to you would be is there any pitfalls to this method unique to PFS sufferers? Should I worry about tanking my e as you've previously talked about when using the dosages suggested by Haidut? If I do go ahead I'd probably buy the drops of preg and DHEA seperately as opposed to getting Pansterone from ideal labs as the ratio of 1:1 isn't ideal for what haidut describes, I'd get the K2 from there but I'm kinda at a loss as to where to get T3 and not even sure it's legal to buy in Ireland (EDIT: found it as a research chemical)

I imagine I'm best off continuing with the protocol for now but I really want to get a head of this and have a plan of action ready to go once I've done that for a while.

I mention this quite a lot but I felt absolutely nothing from 50mg of pregnenolone. I had to use 150mg taken in all one dose after breakfast (w/ food). Try doing exactly that for 1 week and measure results.

Sure, the topical supplements are on the site I mentioned vitamin K2 is "kuinone", preg/dhea is under "pansterone" etc. for high dose preg just use a reputable brand. I wouldn't use T3/thyroid yet unless you feel the need to absolutely need to a last resort. Preg alone will stimulate metabolism especially at the dose I mentioned so make sure you are eating enough protein and sugar.

The only pitfall for PFS people is we have a tendency to burn through glycogen stores extremely fast along with suffering from low cortisol/estrogen when using supplements. This is the exact reason why I always suggest preg alone first since it is the basic precursor to all steroids keeping everything check then you can add in things and go from there if needed. Another similar supplement that can also be supportive is caffeine or caffeine + aspirin. Take a look at my thread where caffeine increased steroid/neurosteroids by a huge amount specifically in the brain.

5a-DHP is OK w/ preg and other supplements but keep in mind it can also lower estrogen and cortisol. So having too many supplements that do that can make you feel worse. Specifically for the ball sack issue, high dose preg was the only supplement that really did the job.

[coppersocks]

Ok thanks, I'll up the preg dose and see how I go for a week, I may lay off the DHP during this time also as looking at the signs of low E, I may be displaying them (fatigue, joint creaking, anxiety), but they could just be unrelated an part and parcel of PFS plus I've always had creaky joints.
I'll look into caffeine and aspirin also, I've always had quite a low tolerance to it and a month before my crash I actually quit all caffeine as it I was displaying signs of adrenal fatigue (probably exasperated by the fin also). By the time I quit it had stopped giving me a dopaministic response and would always just leave me jittery and anxious Haven't touched a drop since. Having said that I've read some of your posts on having it at the same time as the l-theanine and that seems to counter act the worse aspects of it. I don't know if I'll be able to work up to 1200mg any time soon though, I'd be swinging from the rafters.