TRT pre PFS- now POST

[bruschi11]

Have been on this forum reading quite a bit. Came down with a pretty bad post fin crash beginning of December. Used pill 15 days in early November.

I messed up horribly. I'm 28. I worked with chilln on the allthingsmale forum to fix low cortisol issues. They started in 2014 and I started fixing them with chilln in early 2016. By summer, with t3/preg/testo cream, I was able to get myself into an amazing place say 90% of my old self.

Being on t-cream, my labs showed ridiculously high dht levels double the range. Chilln blocked DHT himself with beta sitosterol and told me that "fin definitely has risk, but as long as you maintain metabolic rate (cortisol), you shouldn't have an issue- but again it has risk." I don't want to blame him but he made me feel comfortable with something that I was never comfortable with before. I knew of the horror stories, but I also knew I was pretty good at "maintaining metabolic rate".

I was brainwashed by the guy. I think he was amazing teaching me how to fix cortisol, but DHT and finasteride were a whole another ball game. I listened to him, saw work from Dr. Hertoghe and Mariano saying too high DHT was a major negative. I had a temporary insanity issue there. I gave it a freakin shot.

Had some cortisol issues pretty quickly so quit. Preg-->cort was happening too fast. Blood pressure increased. Recovered by end of November (quit on 15th). Had a good week followed by a pretty immediate crash in early December.

Horrible Anxiety, excess cortisol production followed by low cortisol production (I know how these things feel- basically awful stress response), lessened libido and erection quality, morning and nocturnal erections went from 10/10 to 3/10, sleep is horrible- choppy.

I realize the fact this pill went in my body after having health issues is absolutely asinine. My self hatred was so bad all of December and January. Sure I took action to fix it, but the depression was far more than the drive to fix it.

Now its February, I feel like I can put together a form of HRT and medication regime to get myself functional and sleeping, but know I need to do more for complete recovery.

Current supps:

Pregnenolone cream: 100mg
T3: 10mcg
T-cyp 120mg weekly (killing libido compared to t gel- going back to t gel this week): T gel will be 100mg daily
hcg : 150mcg EOD
5a-dhp :5 drops per night
Magnesium, zinc, vitamin a,c, b6
tianeptine, shilajit
lysine, arginine, taurine
Injectable L carnitine: (to increase androgen receptor sensitivity)
Sorghum

It really feels like my biggest issues are mentally. Before I can think to fix libido, I know I have to fix the brain aspect. I believe GABA was totally destroyed and it directly led to a major serotonin/dopamine imbalance. I believe the last several weeks of supplementation has restored dopamine/serotonin to a better place, but gaba still in horrible spot as Xanax or Ativan is/was needed. I feel adding in SHILAJIT has really helped gaba in the last couple of days, but I have been prescribed baclofen. I have no problem going on baclofen long term as I realize how badly lack of GABA seems to be impacting me.

Definitely in a tough spot and willing to learn. Thinking about a long water fast or juice feast and cycling the herbs.
Shilajit I really would rather not stop as its effects seem pretty awesome and immediate, but if you think it needs to be cycled, I guess I have to do it.

[bruschi11]

Looking for a link to the CDSNUTS protocol if anyone can provide that.

Also would a medication like baclofen be ok to stay on long term for the recovery. I just know my condition is a bit different than most as cortisol is completely messed up and any type of stress at all creates cortisol release. Believe this should help very much.

May also try to use shilajit instead for this. It seems to be helping mentally immensely.

[Cdsnuts]

Looking for a link to the CDSNUTS protocol if anyone can provide that.

Also would a medication like baclofen be ok to stay on long term for the recovery. I just know my condition is a bit different than most as cortisol is completely messed up and any type of stress at all creates cortisol release. Believe this should help very much.

May also try to use shilajit instead for this. It seems to be helping mentally immensely.

Total Male Optimization Just another WordPress site

Not 100% finished yet, but you can put together the program from there.

I know you think your in a different boat, but most guys that crash end up with sky high cortisol. Your mental symptoms are exactly like mine used to be.

There is one fix for this whole thing regardless of what your symptoms are. Dump the pharms and jump on the regimen.

[bruschi11]

Total Male Optimization Just another WordPress site

Not 100% finished yet, but you can put together the program from there.

I know you think your in a different boat, but most guys that crash end up with sky high cortisol. Your mental symptoms are exactly like mine used to be.

There is one fix for this whole thing regardless of what your symptoms are. Dump the pharms and jump on the regimen.

Total Male Optimization Just another WordPress site

Not 100% finished yet, but you can put together the program from there.

I know you think your in a different boat, but most guys that crash end up with sky high cortisol. Your mental symptoms are exactly like mine used to be.

There is one fix for this whole thing regardless of what your symptoms are. Dump the pharms and jump on the regimen.

Just smoked pot for the 2nd time since I got myself into this hell. Made me really do some thinking.

I think you may be right. I'm totally messed up. I am a bit worried mind to penis connection could get messed up and I could lose that if I go off hormones.

I started Shilajit 3 days ago and it has been the best thing in terms of cortisol control. Could this herb be used daily at all times during this run?

28 years old. Right now I pretty much have nothing. I have everything though- a great job, family, so many friends that love me and have no idea what is going on, I bought a condo at 25 in the middle of an amazing city. I literally have everything. But nothing- and nobody gets it.

I was gifted athletically and in the classroom growing up and the combination of a very unhealthy college life and a couple pro hormone runs at beginning of college really seemed to mess me up by time I was 24. Since then it was all sorts of combos I've used- ghPeps/daa, clomid, HC runs, and finally what I thought was heaven- preg/t3/testo. Post fin has completely wiped that out.

While preg/t3/testo was heaven say 75% overall compared to the past. The past was living between 10 and 40%. This is now -100%. Hell.

Gotta make a big decision from here. Scary spot.

Thinking staying on TRT this week with just shilajit. Give myself my first week in the gym and see if there are any improvements in sleep, libido, the big ones.

I really am considering dropping everything. Have to give it at least two weeks for remaining drops of CYP to leave my system. If shilajit by itself can really contain cortisol to this degree, maybe I can recover on herbs.

[Swill]

Just echoing what CD has said, your issues don't sound at all abnormal and you absolutely can recover naturally.

And by the way, I am all too familiar with the all things male forum and the fraud that is Dr Crisler... travelled from the UK out to see him in my first year of dealing with fin issues when I was a nervous wreck and hoping he was the saviour he proclaims to be... he didn't have the first clue on how to help and after a few pharma grade 'HPTA restart' protocols which made me manic beyond description and a shit tonne of tests, it became clear I was being used as a human guinea pig and cut him loose, not before he stole a bit of money for a product he never sent and didn't reply to any emails... had to get the money back through my card company eventually.

Anyway, I digress... basically dude it will be rough when you stop with the pharma stuff as your body levels out and finds homeostasis, it will feel like everything bad is happening but if you stay the course then within a month or so you'll be good to go with starting the rebuild... it'll require mental strength and be a case of 3 steps back initially to take 10 forward. It'll be a marathon and not a sprint, and never happens as quickly as you want it to, and you won't get the sledgehammer effect that pharma gives you but I really think you could cure yourself of all the issues you have naturally if you follow and are consistent with the content on CD's site.

I soon after my Crisler horror experience read up on CD's success and protocol and jumped on, and a few years later I am doing really well with just some residual sexual issues to finish mopping up. One things for sure though, if I'd stuck with the pharma route I certainly wouldn't be where I am right now. I'd advise you to jump on board with it all man, the benefits won't be immediate but will be more than worthwhile.

[bruschi11]

Thanks for that SWILL- really needed to hear about a similar experience.

Test cyp is doing nothing basically- only seeing libido boosted by testo cream due to the dht conversion. I still am horrible, but shilajit I believe is doing an amazing job of balancing the brain and controlling cortisol release. Can shilajit be continued indefinitely and the herbs be cycled other than just that?

I would like to keep preg, small amounts of t3 (to stay out of RT3 situation), and 5a-dhp in play, but realize if you guys think they need to be removed I guess I can do it.

Should I juice feast as I come off the hormones? Will that be too much? Or should I just come off the hormones first then do the juice feast?

One thing I really have to consider right now is my last Cyp injection was Monday. That will be in system another two weeks and causing suppression. Maybe start juice feast while on hormones these next two weeks and see where it takes me. If I like where I'm going, stay on them. If not, drop the hormones.

I don't know, I just have a ton of variables at play right now with what is in my body right now. I totally agree with both of you- fixing from the ground up is the best way.

[Swill]

you won't like where you're going initially... it'll be horrible. You'll be in a massive state of flux and are going to have a bad time... just know that this is going to happen and be assured that it WILL be temporary. Personally, I would wait out 3 weeks/a month before starting a feast, just eat well and train when you can in that time and then jump on the juice feast thereafter.

I personally would definitely drop the t3. If your supplementing with it then your thyroid etc are never going to recover naturally. It won't be fun initially, but more than worth it in the long run. And as far as shilajit goes, I cycle it but (correct me if I'm wrong anybody) I understand you can actually use shilajit daily if you wish. I just find that less is more for me with this thing.

Basically, if you go through with it this initial month will suck, but if you truly jump on board with dumping all the pharma, feasting and then hitting the protocol hard then I bet you'll be posting here in 4 months telling us you've felt the best you have in a long time... all natty.

[bruschi11]

Again thanks Swill for quick reply. Was about to head to the grocery store, but I think I'll wait now.

When does the point come that T-Cyp is no longer suppressive? I really wish I never used it now. I've been all t-cream for 8 months, but the T-Cyp was just an attempt to see how I was with just T and lowered DHT in body.

I figure I have to stay on t cream (short half life) and hormones until t-cyp is no longer suppressive and go from there. Also very worried about moving from HCG to just LH/FSH signaling whereas I haven't relied on these since last June while on a SERM. Do you think I should use a SERM for a couple of weeks to just get the signaling going then jump off? Damn that crash will probably be horrible.

Edit: SWILL, read up on your journey- props man.

[bruschi11]

One thing I'm seeing here is a lot of low hormone levels of T. In my body I feel as if T isn't working at all whether it is high or low. DHT actually is working as I feel such a difference on the cream libido-wise. I woke up with erections several times last night.

So all of us here are under the assumption that the AR is the biggest issue with PFS correct? 5ar2 something to contemplate. I feel like the whole fasting, juicing thing is what's going to let 5ar2 respond along with DHT supplementation. 5ar2 being a time thing as well for that reversal.

The androgen receptor is the scary part. And basically the herbs I feel are for the androgen receptor- correct me if I'm wrong please.

Also, is it possible I am hurting the testosterone receptor by giving myself synthetic T?

[Snell1234]

If you believe the androgen receptor is the problem, then I am going on a bit of a mission with emphasising this point, stop masturbating / ejaculating to allow the androgen receptor levels to recover.