Biatch following the protocol

[biatch]

What did you think was going to happen by following the protocol?

You know exactly why you're experiencing this upswing. It's in direct relation to the work you've been putting in.

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Well, I guess this is for sure))... that's weird I got a bad strong crash where I seriously was feeling not good and couldn't even wake up.. from there I got headace for 2 days and then now I feel different, better, a lot better.....I wouldn't exclude it was R andro (I know 1 pill means nothing, but this big change I am experiencing just started from there, maybe I am wrong).
Lets see what's happening next, I would even love stuff keep staying this level, I mean.. I feel good and energized!!
...but will keep working more and more now that I saw the light at the end of the tunnel...

[biatch]

You need to remember that PFS is literally an anxiety induced shit hole. Everything seems way overwhelming then it should be and trying new things sound like the scariest shit (I had this originally with caffeine, if I even thought of taking it my anxiety would sky rocket even worse, but once I had an idea of what was actually going in my body, that thought faded away and can tolerate more than I could ever now even prior to PFS), you literally need to tell yourself what is going with your body.

Once you start trying more and more stuff and seeing improvement it gets much easier once you actually understand what is going on your body. I.E. known that your GABA is severely impaired and that is causing your anxiety and know why its happening etc, that will make it much easier, instead of constantly guessing and assuming, which once again will lead to more anxiety

What about creatin to improve 5Alpha?

[TubZy]

So just to flesh this out. Putting aside the method of getting recovered (we all know what to do), but focusing on what the method addresses, do we need to stop inflammation of the pituitary to allow it to return to normal function which will restore 5ar1 in the CNS?

Or do we need to do both that and then restore 5ar in the CNS through the use of androsterone?

This method works strictly for people who have been off fin for a while and have normal to high T levels along with DHT (meaning 5AR II is functioning perfectly fine) yet still remaining symptoms. For someone who just came off fin, you would want to address low T levels first (if that is the case) and once they are restored this procedure would be the way to go by addressing 5AR I.

Anything that stimulates GABA or dopamine seems to stimulate 5AR in the CNS. The tricky part is that many of the pituitary hormones can also increase androgens downstream that is why it so hard hence why focusing on oxytocin seems to be the best at the moment. I would just focus on anything that can increase 5AR in the CNS for now like caffeine, vitamin C, niacinamide, androsterone etc. and just keep taking it at the highest dosage you can tolerate

I don't know if it's technically inflammation that is causing the issue, most likely just down regulation since the pituitary pretty much regulates the endocrine system. So anything that promotes pituitary hormones would increase its own synthesis via positive feedback loop. We just started focusing on oxytocin, so hope to have some anecdotal evidence soon, but high dose vitamin C definitely improves symptoms for sure.

[TubZy]

What about creatin to improve 5Alpha?

Didn't work for me and made me feel worse, it increases DHT, so through 5ARII

[TubZy]

Useful information/opinion you just shared, thank you. This is what my pfs is as well, I believe 100%. Gonna add vit C to my protocol soon, what is your dose?

Anything higher than 2 grams per dose, at least for me to actually feel it and most of had to use pure powder (not capsules). But I have had to gone up to 4 grams before as well at one time/dose, vitamin C dose is highly independent, but the best way to really find out how much you need is bowel tolerance, but you should at least feel something from 2-4 grams per dose. Just keep upping the dose until you feel better since the study showed the oxytocin release from vitamin C was dose dependent.

I take 200mg caffeine with 2 grams of vitamin C powder and 500mg of niacinamide twice a day. You don't have to take them all together either or use that dose, I just found they work even better in synergy since caffeine will increase the absorption of the ingredients its administered with.

[jjbradley2211]

Anything higher than 2 grams per dose, at least for me to actually feel it and most of had to use pure powder (not capsules). But I have had to gone up to 4 grams before as well at one time/dose, vitamin C dose is highly independent, but the best way to really find out how much you need is bowel tolerance, but you should at least feel something from 2-4 grams per dose. Just keep upping the dose until you feel better since the study showed the oxytocin release from vitamin C was dose dependent.

I take 200mg caffeine with 2 grams of vitamin C powder and 500mg of niacinamide twice a day. You don't have to take them all together either or use that dose, I just found they work even better in synergy since caffeine will increase the absorption of the ingredients its administered with.

Where do you get your Vitamin C and Niacinamide?

[jacknap]

Allopreg is a positive modulator of GABA-A so allopreg (and THDOC) are not modulating GABA as they should be, i.e. in reference to stress, anxiety, sleep etc.

The depleted neurosteroids is the source (from low 5AR I in the CNS), the GABA absence is just further down the chain.

Funny you brought up, Mirtazapine (remeron) is probably one of the last few things on my last that I haven't tried yet, it is pretty expensive. It does elevate neurosteroids pretty well and lowers adrenalin and pro thyroid, check out the links below. It is probably the only anti depressant "type" drug that I would consider trying (Peat considers it useful in certain situations, which I was surprised about) it has some similar benefits to androsterone (R-andro), but again I'm not condoning its use just like to show the research. Another member on Peat said they recovered using it.

https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...-others.15646/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...enaline.12425/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...ortisol.15626/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...chanism.16991/

thanks for the links. do you think you can eventually cycle off remeron by a taper and maintain? Comedian Ari Shaffir also got PFS and he used disapramine and cycled off and doesn't use it anymore.

Dr. Mark Gordon also treats PFS like a TBI and recovered people using bioidentical hormones. Not sure if they have to stay on it for life or not. Do you think PFS is a type of TBI or is it more of a downregulation of receptors?

I've found relief using pregnanalone. Mostly for sleep/anxiety. Still wake up though 3-5 times a night and had to up my dose after using it for a week so I don't know if it's the answer either.

I believe I have most likely have a form of PFS but mine was caused by RU58841 and that's an anti-androgen so I think it would hit all the DHT receptors and even testosterone. from what you know think there's a slightly different game plan I should follow as it might be a bit of a different monster?

I posted my bloodwork on introduce yourself section if you could have a look. I had low FSH, low LH, high cortisol, low free T, high DHT, very high SHBG, medium T, medium estrogen (Canadian/European metrics)

I had sides from RU for 16 days after one topical application. Then my T came back with a vengeance but during the upswing I used modafinil twice, lsd once, and binge drank twice. Also a lot of sex and masturbation. So my functional medicine doctor thinks I might have fried my NMDA receptors possibly. Not totally ruling that out either. crashed like 5 weeks after that one time application of ru.

[TubZy]

Where do you get your Vitamin C and Niacinamide?

nutrabio for niacinamide and get pure vitamin C powder on amazon (dr clarks)

[TubZy]

thanks for the links. do you think you can eventually cycle off remeron by a taper and maintain? Comedian Ari Shaffir also got PFS and he used disapramine and cycled off and doesn't use it anymore.

Dr. Mark Gordon also treats PFS like a TBI and recovered people using bioidentical hormones. Not sure if they have to stay on it for life or not. Do you think PFS is a type of TBI or is it more of a downregulation of receptors?

I've found relief using pregnanalone. Mostly for sleep/anxiety. Still wake up though 3-5 times a night and had to up my dose after using it for a week so I don't know if it's the answer either.

I believe I have most likely have a form of PFS but mine was caused by RU58841 and that's an anti-androgen so I think it would hit all the DHT receptors and even testosterone. from what you know think there's a slightly different game plan I should follow as it might be a bit of a different monster?

I posted my bloodwork on introduce yourself section if you could have a look. I had low FSH, low LH, high cortisol, low free T, high DHT, very high SHBG, medium T, medium estrogen (Canadian/European metrics)

I had sides from RU for 16 days after one topical application. Then my T came back with a vengeance but during the upswing I used modafinil twice, lsd once, and binge drank twice. Also a lot of sex and masturbation. So my functional medicine doctor thinks I might have fried my NMDA receptors possibly. Not totally ruling that out either.

You are similar to me, I used both fin and RU. I only used RU for a small period of time after stopping fin, but during my two year use on fin, I felt like absolute crap and it continued after quitting (after quitting I felt the same exact way as I did while on). During the short time I used RU, I felt even worse, but if I would stop I would feel better in a day or two so I don't think it is RU related, it just increased symptoms even worse. If it was strictly RU related, about any AR agonist (preg is an AR agonist) would fix it.

If you read through my posts you will see I think preg and prog both have their places and I got superior results from high dose preg originally which subsided after a couple of weeks, which I assume to be now from in increase in androgens or the lowering of estrogen.

Regarding the drugs/supplements, no I don't think you need to be on them for life or anything like that. Your body has a positive feedback mechanism so if you are increasing certain biodentical hormones, your body is going to produce more of the enzymes associated with those hormones over time. It is shown in many studies, i.e. adding in bioidentical DHT increases 5AR, adding in pregnenolone increases the enzymes associated for metabolizing preg etc.

Same reason why people have been recovering after repetitive R andro cycles, as the enzymes associated with metabolizing androsterone are all increased.

Oh and to your last question, no I don't think receptors have anything to do with it anymore (I originally did about 2 years ago)

[jjbradley2211]

nutrabio for niacinamide and get pure vitamin C powder on amazon (dr clarks)

Thanks. I am gonna add these 2 to my protocol and take out the creatine. The creatine doesn't seem to have effected anything but muscle recovery but I don't know if it is too subtle to notice.

Congats Biatch on feeling better. Its great that you're feeling better since you were down in the dumps like a week ago. Sorry for borrowing your thread for a second