IML R-Andro First Taste

[biatch]

Tubzy, have you ever run R Andro?
If yes or if not, why do not give it a run?

[TubZy]

Tubzy, have you ever run R Andro?
If yes or if not, why do not give it a run?

Yup, about a year ago Prohormone cycle

Yes, I'm debating on giving it another run with 4 andro, as for now, still experimenting with nicotine/niacinamide, may even combine them.

[K8668B]

For what it's worth, I didn't really feel ready either. And the first day and a half felt pretty weird/anxious. But now it's smoothed out and I definitely feel the best I've felt in months. I'm just saying I wouldn't get caught up in waiting and waiting until you feel perfectly ready. I'd take the plunge sooner rather than later.

I can agree with that! Definitely! For me personally, propecia truly really only hit me with the sexual sides. I suppose i had other sides too, like i mentioned in the beginning, but ive already corrected all of them. Those can easily be corrected simply through better health and maintenance (which i got and learned from this protocol). But now that ive fasted 100%, finally, im making one more natural run in the gym, going to get to that same old level i got to, while cycling herbs and doing everything else, and THEN jump on the prohormone. Should be 2-3 months for me. Maybe less. Then not only i can track my sexual progress, but also my strength gains and size/weight gain as well. been training naturally for over a decade. but was i, or any of us, EVER NATURAL? We were UNDER natural simply by taking propecia and other poisons. for being UNDER natural, i think i was still able to reach a decent level.

But agreed, in a sense you want to have your natural levels up as high as they can before running the prohormone, but dont wait and wait like you said.

We will all be becoming truly natural for the first time ever!

Glad youre feeling good bro!

[TubZy]

This has been my take on it since the beginning. I've always said it was more neurological then anything, simply based on my own horrible experience.

That being said, there are some guys who do not experience any neurological sides at all, yet they are still plagued with sides. For some reason their brains are effected but they don't feel the typical neuro-sides, just sexual. I always thought that it was amazing that their brains could be so affected yet not present them with any mental symptoms.

I believe English put it best in the sticky I created in this section.

Correct, but that is the tricky part. Both 5AR I and II operate on different ratios and relationships. So by increasing DHT by say, taking proviron will improve circulating androgens in serum in can help with some of the physical sides, but if you also suffer from mental sides it can make you feel worse (due to the inverse relationship of 5AR in the brain), which happens in the case with me.

I was going nuts and trying anything DHT derived and I was getting shredded and was in great physical shape, but mentally I felt worse, anxiety was more intense etc.

When I just start focusing on the brain part and cutting everything else out, I improved much quicker. Even though androsterone can increase DHT, it also acts in the brain, that is how it can help both areas without making you feel worse. All of these DHT derivatives and even TRT, can help improve some areas but either most people feel worse or eventually crash on them and are left even in a worse situation with suppressed natural levels when stopping.

Same thing with caffeine. Caffeine is androgenic, but it also acts in the brain as well.

DHEA for me is a precursor to DHT and DHEA makes me feel worse unless I take it in combo with something like progesterone.

Insulin increases expression of 5AR I, so that is why I think fasting can help some people, because insulin is released when you eat obviously, although for me I feel much better running on plenty of glucose with metabolic stimulants instead.

Stimulatory effect of insulin on 5alpha-reductase type 1 (SRD5A1) expression through an Akt-dependent pathway in ovarian granulosa cells. - PubMed - NCBI


Basically ALL stimulants seems to increase 5AR in the brain (even meth lol), so I even looked into yohimbe which is also another common stim and found this. Yohimbe acts very similar to caffeine in the brain.


Raising norepinephrine : Neurotransmitters Neurosteroids

"YOHIMBE: You see, I have been suffering the sexual sides for over a year now. I have tried Cialis, Viagra, Levitra. they all work to get me an erection, but the sex drive is not there. So I decide to try Yohimbe. WOW. gets me an erection just as good as, if not better than any PDE5 inhibitor AND my sex drive is up. I get loads of precum when im aroused on yohimbe, something that viagra, cialis etc. failed to ever do. and not only that, but the effects of the yohimbe are lasting throughout the week. Only negative thing about this is that it get my heart beating incredibly fast and hard and i get serious nausea.

Coffee: I rarely drink coffee, but when i do i notice that i get surprisingly aroused for a couple of hours. It too, gives me strong erections and precum, which i rarely ever get to begin with. "

[Cdsnuts]

Correct, but that is the tricky part. Both 5AR I and II operate on different ratios and relationships. So by increasing DHT by say, taking proviron will improve circulating androgens in serum in can help with some of the physical sides, but if you also suffer from mental sides it can make you feel worse (due to the inverse relationship of 5AR in the brain), which happens in the case with me.

I was going nuts and trying anything DHT derived and I was getting shredded and was in great physical shape, but mentally I felt worse, anxiety was more intense etc.

When I just start focusing on the brain part and cutting everything else out, I improved much quicker. Even though androsterone can increase DHT, it also acts in the brain, that is how it can help both areas without making you feel worse. All of these DHT derivatives and even TRT, can help improve some areas but either most people feel worse or eventually crash on them and are left even in a worse situation with suppressed natural levels when stopping.

Same thing with caffeine. Caffeine is androgenic, but it also acts in the brain as well.

DHEA for me is a precursor to DHT and DHEA makes me feel worse unless I take it in combo with something like progesterone.

Insulin increases expression of 5AR I, so that is why I think fasting can help some people, because insulin is released when you eat obviously, although for me I feel much better running on plenty of glucose with metabolic stimulants instead.

Stimulatory effect of insulin on 5alpha-reductase type 1 (SRD5A1) expression through an Akt-dependent pathway in ovarian granulosa cells. - PubMed - NCBI


Basically ALL stimulants seems to increase 5AR in the brain (even meth lol), so I even looked into yohimbe which is also another common stim and found this. Yohimbe acts very similar to caffeine in the brain.


Raising norepinephrine : Neurotransmitters Neurosteroids

"YOHIMBE: You see, I have been suffering the sexual sides for over a year now. I have tried Cialis, Viagra, Levitra. they all work to get me an erection, but the sex drive is not there. So I decide to try Yohimbe. WOW. gets me an erection just as good as, if not better than any PDE5 inhibitor AND my sex drive is up. I get loads of precum when im aroused on yohimbe, something that viagra, cialis etc. failed to ever do. and not only that, but the effects of the yohimbe are lasting throughout the week. Only negative thing about this is that it get my heart beating incredibly fast and hard and i get serious nausea.

Coffee: I rarely drink coffee, but when i do i notice that i get surprisingly aroused for a couple of hours. It too, gives me strong erections and precum, which i rarely ever get to begin with. "

It is for these reasons prohormones are better then taking the target hormone directly.

- - - Updated - - -

Yup, about a year ago Prohormone cycle

Yes, I'm debating on giving it another run with 4 andro, as for now, still experimenting with nicotine/niacinamide, may even combine them.

You should run them all together.....

[Durantia37]

I'm surprised you've only done one cycle of Andro, Tubzy. Now that I've gotten a taste I can't imagine only doing this once.

I know you've probably explained this before, but if someone wanted to do the caffeine/niacinamide combo, what would good beginner's doses be?

[Maxout777]

I'm surprised you've only done one cycle of Andro, Tubzy. Now that I've gotten a taste I can't imagine only doing this once.

I know you've probably explained this before, but if someone wanted to do the caffeine/niacinamide combo, what would good beginner's doses be?

500 mg niacinamide, 325 mg aspirin, 200mg caffeine (adjust caffeine from there). I think 400-600mg is the sweet spot for most from what I've read.

[Durantia37]

500 mg niacinamide, 325 mg aspirin, 200mg caffeine (adjust caffeine from there). I think 400-600mg is the sweet spot for most from what I've read.

Okay, so you do all three at once? Have you tried it personally?

[Maxout777]

Okay, so you do all three at once? Have you tried it personally?

Yes, all at once. And yes, I've tried it personally. It works. You'll be pleasantly surprised if you've been experiencing any thyroid issues. It's all natural as well, so you can't ask for much more than that.

[Durantia37]

It's been a week since starting the cycle, so just to update: Carbs, for me, pretty much completely got rid of the anxiety I experienced earlier. I still feel a little over stimulated at times, but it's not unbearable. Nightmares haven't gone away, but I still haven't tried to straight up demolish carbs before bed yet.

I'm now doing 300mg, and I'll probably end up doing 400mh and staying there until the end of the cycle.

I feel the most normal I've felt in a long-ass time. I've been wanting to do stuff on weekends again and I've even been texting some of my old side chicks. Libido and penis size/health are the best they've been since probably January.

I'm way fucking stronger in the gym, but I guess that goes without saying. Energy still up, almost hard to fall asleep, but no serious problems. Terrible nightmares, again. Very easy to get up in the morning with all the energy.

Ridiculously vascular like nothing I've ever experienced. Keep feeling my muscles all day in disbelief.

I've also experienced the calm alpha feeling others have described. The herbs give me bad roid rage (which made me break my windshield with my fist at one point), but with this stuff I feel completely in control and able to make smooth precise decisions under stress.

All in all, very very satisfied, but I'm dreading coming off, because I worry that almost all the progress is going to go away.