Curious on Everyone's thoughts regarding PFS and depression

[Ridd]

Many studies have linked depression and PFS strongly to one another and I'm pretty sure we all have experienced depression biologically and emotionally from our reaction to 5AR inhibitors. Anecdotally, I've read many doctors and "nonbelievers" think that PFS is just very aggressive depression.

Either way, there is a lot of correlation here. I've dealt with depression from a young age, before I was even a teen, and PFS has definitely not helped, however I now feel like I have solved a piece of my health related puzzle that has been troubling me for years. I've dealt with feeling generally shitty for most of my life, but I've just pushed through it. I really believe that a lot of my depression and energy related health problems might be due to something biological that we all may similarly have going on.

So what's your experience with depression? was anyone here legitimately completely healthy, mind and body, before getting PFS? Do you feel like you've been "out of balance" so to speak, for a lot of your life and something like fin or sp just pushed you over the edge?

[Durantia37]

I think PFS happens when a system that was very delicate or unhealthy in some way(s) experiences androgen deprivation for an acute or extended period of time. I also think having a metabolism/body/nervous system that's especially sensitive to drugs/herbs plays a role.

Personally, I've had plenty of depression, definitely more than the people I've known, but I don't think this was much of a factor. I had a series of stressful events happen (break-up, arrest, bad shroom trip) within a couple months right before taking saw palmetto. I'd also been getting really bad sleep for like two years and had increasingly bad adrenal fatigue symptoms. I was definitely primed for some kind of crash.

Not that it really matters why it happened.

[Hulk Smash]

I was 100% healthy before all this. No history of depression or illness. My only moment of being somewhat depressed was a bad break up many years before this mess. But that depression greatly pales in comparison to what I experienced going through this b.s.

Only "illness"I had was severe pollen and minor shellfish allergies.

From all I've read and my own experience, I'm willing to bet anyone taking a 5ar inhibitor experiences some degree of pfs. Some side effects are so minor it gets swept under the rug.
The research (if ever disclosed honestly) will show this.

[Swill]

I was 100% healthy and happy prior to PFS also.

[Ridd]

I think PFS happens when a system that was very delicate or unhealthy in some way(s) experiences androgen deprivation for an acute or extended period of time. I also think having a metabolism/body/nervous system that's especially sensitive to drugs/herbs plays a role.

Personally, I've had plenty of depression, definitely more than the people I've known, but I don't think this was much of a factor. I had a series of stressful events happen (break-up, arrest, bad shroom trip) within a couple months right before taking saw palmetto. I'd also been getting really bad sleep for like two years and had increasingly bad adrenal fatigue symptoms. I was definitely primed for some kind of crash.

Not that it really matters why it happened.

how long until you started experiencing PFS after first taking sp?

I think it's important to figure out why it happened, this thing is still largely a mystery, even if we understand the basics.

[Ridd]

I was 100% healthy and happy prior to PFS also.

gotcha, how long were you on fin before crashing?

[CannonBalls]

I was also 100% happy. Had/have a great relationship with fiancé who moved in a little before I crashed, great workouts, stress free work environment. Everything was good. My body was a little beat up from X-fit but was still in the best shape of my life.

Took SP for about 8 months prior, if I remember correctly.

[Durantia37]

how long until you started experiencing PFS after first taking sp?

I think it's important to figure out why it happened, this thing is still largely a mystery, even if we understand the basics.

I noticed brainfog literally the first day I took the pills. But I didn't think it was from saw palmetto. I took the pills for nine days total, had brainfog each of those days and it got so bad I researched saw palmetto and discovered everything.

After about 10 days I was back to normal, but then I'd crash again. Then I'd go back to 100%. This cycle continued for a few months, and the crashes got a little worse each time. At one point things got seriously fucking bad and that's when I started juice feasting.

I don't think it's quite as enigmatic as it initially seems or as people make it out to be. You're inhibiting an incredibly important enzyme, and this has a powerfully suppressive cascade effect, and if you don't know what's going on immediately, which most people don't, you can make it much worse, quickly.

[Ridd]

I noticed brainfog literally the first day I took the pills. But I didn't think it was from saw palmetto. I took the pills for nine days total, had brainfog each of those days and it got so bad I researched saw palmetto and discovered everything.

After about 10 days I was back to normal, but then I'd crash again. Then I'd go back to 100%. This cycle continued for a few months, and the crashes got a little worse each time. At one point things got seriously fucking bad and that's when I started juice feasting.

I don't think it's quite as enigmatic as it initially seems or as people make it out to be. You're inhibiting an incredibly important enzyme, and this has a powerfully suppressive cascade effect, and if you don't know what's going on immediately, which most people don't, you can make it much worse, quickly.

funny, I remember having brain fog immediately after taking sp too. the reaction was so fast (minutes....) and so obviously from something, ie not placebo. I guess we're in that incredibly rare, super sensitive group. good thing we didn't take fin. I noticed my libido dropped within a couple weeks and my erections weren't doing great, that's when I stopped, about 3 weeks in. 3 weeks later, after feeling back to 100%, I crashed hard.

how's your progress going now? what % of recovery would you say you hover around?

[jimmyjonas]

I have pondered this question many times, particularly in the early months of getting hit, I have read all the studies, even discussed them with doctors, The Harvard one in particular was interesting to me as in not finding a cause except depression. There is one coming from Baylor i'm not sure of release date. There have been polls done on PH and solve pfs of this very question and usually it splits pretty even as in some guys did have a history of depresssion, some guys didnt. The most puzzling question for me has been how do more guys not get hit with sides given the harm it did to me. The official line is i think 97% have no problems on it, I have my doubts about that.

I have suffered from anxiety and depression at various points in my life, last time I got hit with a bad episode was about five years ago HOWEVER the anxiety and depression I experienced after finasteride was in a different stratosphere, and with one key difference this time I also had physical side effects as in physical numbness of genitals and twisting of penis to a banana like shape, that is caused in my opinion by a particular ingredient of the drug and then after comes the psychological collapse, flooding the body with stress which is why some dont bounce back quickly, you stay stuck in that state, so for me its been a bit of both. Also, when I previously had issues with anxiety my libido was NEVER affected, It was always solid no matter how I felt, how much I partied etc, this was very different, the missus wearing something that would turn me into raging hard on etc all changed after fin that instinct that feeling was gone, thankfully that is changing.

Perhaps I was more vulnerable to its effects because of history with anxiety but at time of taking i was in a very good place, doing really well in career and in a solid relationship, please note I took it for less than a week and then boom I physically and mentally collapsed, length of use in my opinion is irrelevant, I've read approx forty/fifty stories of similar story after short term use.

For me a turning point was when I dropped the need to understand what causes it, if you've read ph and others you'll see the sites have been active for years and they still have not conclusively proved what causes it, maybe someday they will BUT for me I made the decision that this is bullshit I have to stop this it is not doing me any good just keeping me lost in the dark.

I completely believe in what cd has set up here and in his protocol, I have ZERO doubts about it. I know that it may seem odd not to question things as an adult however in this case I recommend blind faith, dont question, just do it. For me dropping trying to understand pfs and just following the protocol to the letter I have made very good solid improvements I am not healed but ive seen incremental improvements as in the desire for a woman coming back along with other positive improvements, if i never found swole source and was still researching the cause I would still be in a really bad way I absolutely have no doubt about it and thats why I believe there are guys on ph and solve pfs who are suffering for years and years because they cant break out of the mindset of trying to prove/understand pfs, they argue with each other over whos theory is correct when really its a dead end road and time would be better spent focusing on healing your body through diet exercise and all of the good stuff, not lost on a computer in that negative world.