Bizzbee's Trial with Super R Andro (2nd run of pro hormones)

[jacknap]

This thread and this place is becoming embarrassing.

Guys, we're discussing a disorder that causes ED and lack of sex drive yet there seems to be a bit of "mines bigger" going on here.

If there's one thing my journey did for me, it was enabling me to be a more humble person, which I wasn't before. I suggest a few of you guys try that on for size as well.

lol that's just people in general. I agree though. I also participate on a soccer forum for fun yet people still manage to attack each other on that. I think it's also stress related cuz I remember when I was really stressed out I lashed out at people more.

Meditation helps this a lot.

[Cdsnuts]

They are paying their dues back, in the form of herbs and supplements that he advertises. He's not going to go through with all this effort solely out of the kindness of his heart, there has to be something else in it for him as well. He's created a virtual cult here. I merely questioned the wisdom of rotating over 21 herbs and the backlash I received by suggesting any kind of deviation from his Manson-like followers is astonishing. This is apparently not the place I had hoped it would be, where freedom of experimentation and thought is valued. I have people attacking me for things I didn't even do such as confuse the difference between two isomers on a bottle of prohormones, and this by some nincompoop who probably couldn't finish his GED. I don't think I will post my experiences or progress here if this continues to be the case. This thread has taken up literally hours of my time because I have to contend with jobless fools living in their parent's basement and with plenty of time to act like immature buffoons over the internet because of the afforded anonymity and bandwidth. Well my bandwidth for this kind of nonsense has reached its limit. I have a career to look after and a body on the verge of recovery and I don't have time for this disgustingly puerile banter. You seem to be close to recovery. I wish you success in that regard.

Damn...I take a couple weeks off from technology and look at this shitshow.

You're obviously harboring alot of resentment towards me.....Despite all the help I've given you, and despite the fact that you're "on the verge of recovery" because of the protocol you're following, I would think you'd be happy about that. Instead you slam me?

Thanks Biz. You're welcome. I'm pretty sure you're the one who was always commenting about how I'm always here to help?

Not sure why you're so focused on the financials of everything? The protocol stands on it's own regardless. It works, that's all that matters. I'd say most other people agree.

In regards to you "questioning the wisdom" of rotating 21 herbs. You're still suffering.....no?

I'm not. And neither are a good majority of guys that have followed the plan exactly as it's laid out.

You can do what ever you want. But anybody that does a little research can see the obvious benefit of hitting the T boosting herbs from all angles. Simply put, you're just going to get better results with a variety of herbs....not just three.

Any body chiming in on that was just trying to help you.

It's guys like you who make me question why I bother sometimes. Nothing like biting the hand that feeds you. I've done nothing but help you along the way and this is how you show your thanks?

If that's how you really feel, then maybe it's time for you to move along. I mean, if you're going to be questioning the wisdom of the whole thing, you may as well just stop.....all of it. And do your own thing. Just make sure it looks nothing like what is recommended here. Otherwise, it would be kind of hypocritical.....no?

Good luck to you.

[Cdsnuts]

First of all, hi to all guys i'm new here but it's been a long time i've reading your discussions and i found this site interesting.
English is not my native language, so i'm sorry if i made mistakes here and there trying to write things right.
About me: graduate in Physics, specializing in Cosmology but stopped due to problems in my life. I'm 34 years old. Long story of depression that it's almost disappeared now thanks to TRT. However i worked for Bayer for almost a year (in 2005) in studying long term effects of Mesterolone (Proviron here in Italy) (i was one of his lab rats, and i contributed to the study and conclusions on Proviron.) Here's the original study (not the one i've participated, because was never officially published. This one was long-term although the one i've participated was much longer): [Effects of long-term use of mesterolone on different urine metabolites in andrological patients (author's transl)]. - PubMed - NCBI
I'm sorry for the short introduction and lack of english, but i keep thing short because Xanax over my 15 year abuse has ruined my brain and memory, only beginning to recover now thanks to my doctor that finally decided to put me on TRT seeing how much Mesterolone has improved my life (seeing low T lab results don't do much here in Italy, doctors see Testosterone as evil here....no more words on this).
However, seeing this forum as a good place for information, i must point out some mistakes that i want to share just because i don't want disinformation to ruin someone's life.
I decided to write here after seeing the debate that's going on; apart from the shame it caused in the last pages, i see you guys are very helpful in sharing your Prohormone runs and results for everyone who suffer from some form of depression (i've never used Finasteride or Dutasteride or any 5 AR blocker in my life, but being a depressive-bipolar-adhd sufferer as a child, i want to share my little contrbution). Hope it helps. I see CDnuts and Tubzy as very pleasant and informed person, but....Tubzy there's one BIG thing i have to disagree with as can be very dangerous to someone trying to cure himself. Androsterone has GABA agonism, very potent but not to the extent of other neurosteroids (3a,17a Androstanediol is more potent, although less androgenic; the most potent in human body however is Allopregnanolone, 5 alpha reduced-3a hydroxy dehidrogenated Progesterone). It's not the same for Epiandrosterone, quite the opposite: Epi is the stereoisomer that actually has agonism to the GABA C receptor BUT it's a NEGATIVE allosteric modulator, act on GABA A receptor as an ANTAGONIST (so diminishing benzodiazepine-like effects) stimulates the NMDA receptor, (similarly to DHEA and almost every stereoisomer) resulting in an excitatory neurosteroid (similarly to DHEA) that can augment anxiety diminishing chloride-channel signaling; and it can be even dangerous to our hearts (in high amounts and for prolonged period of use) blocking Calcium Ca2+ channels. Every 3b neurosterid share that similar characteristics, that's why our bodies have much higher amounts of 3a reduced steroids (when all function properly). Sorry i would not be seen as rude or prig, especially because i know in forums everyone who has low post count is seen as "noob" (correct??). However sorry to everyone i have problem with english and in communicating (even if i'm behind a monitor) but i am used to work and live alone, only with numbers and formulas and i don't know how to act with people. However i can try to do my best if someone want to communicate with me. Don't get bothered if i don't respond or write even for days, i can only write when i feel i can. Hope i can help. Bye everyone.

Wrong place for this post. Start a new thread.

[Cdsnuts]

Seeing as I missed this and it's already been up for a few weeks, I'm going to leave it.

But I'm going to say this:

The next time any forum member attacks another member with name calling and juvenile slights, they're going to get a little vacation, all expenses paid by yours truly.

Keep your shit together....really guys. This thread was a pathetic showing, worthy of Propecia Help.

[bizzbee]

I don't harbor resentment over this, just disappointment. I was expecting some disclosure regarding your financial motives and instead I got what appeared to be some evasiveness. What do I care if someone want's to make a buck on the side if the protocol works? I care because when the prospect of financial gain and truly empathic giving become intermingled then it evokes some ethically questionable and interesting situations. I won't expound on it here as I'm sure we can all imagine such situations on our own.
Let us be honest here, those that give out of true generosity don't expect to be given appreciation in the form of added loyalty or unquestioning of certain aspects of this "protocol" you've attributed to yourself. And what is it we're really talking about here? Taking cold showers...ingesting some herbs...proper sleep hygiene...working out...eating a paleo diet...groundbreaking right? No. I could have easily gotten this information from reading a few health magazines and books (and I did in fact, before you ever put up your website).
To liken members here to dogs that may bite the hand of the "owner" that feeds them betrays a sense of entitlement that you don't deserve. A hypocrite is not someone who questions the wisdom of others, it is someone who feigns to possess certain virtues or principles. Am I devoid of principles now because I question the wisdom of others? I see you had PVDL banned. He had some legitimate questions for you, it's too bad we never got an answer to them. Good luck trying to patent something like this. You'll be just another muscle-head with a degree in bro-science trying to sell some worthless powder to a bunch of noobs.

Damn...I take a couple weeks off from technology and look at this shitshow.

You're obviously harboring alot of resentment towards me.....Despite all the help I've given you, and despite the fact that you're "on the verge of recovery" because of the protocol you're following, I would think you'd be happy about that. Instead you slam me?

Thanks Biz. You're welcome. I'm pretty sure you're the one who was always commenting about how I'm always here to help?

Not sure why you're so focused on the financials of everything? The protocol stands on it's own regardless. It works, that's all that matters. I'd say most other people agree.

In regards to you "questioning the wisdom" of rotating 21 herbs. You're still suffering.....no?

I'm not. And neither are a good majority of guys that have followed the plan exactly as it's laid out.

You can do what ever you want. But anybody that does a little research can see the obvious benefit of hitting the T boosting herbs from all angles. Simply put, you're just going to get better results with a variety of herbs....not just three.

Any body chiming in on that was just trying to help you.

It's guys like you who make me question why I bother sometimes. Nothing like biting the hand that feeds you. I've done nothing but help you along the way and this is how you show your thanks?

If that's how you really feel, then maybe it's time for you to move along. I mean, if you're going to be questioning the wisdom of the whole thing, you may as well just stop.....all of it. And do your own thing. Just make sure it looks nothing like what is recommended here. Otherwise, it would be kind of hypocritical.....no?

Good luck to you.

[jacknap]

didn't u say yourself that it took you like 8 years before you locked down the diet/gym aspect though?

also good luck finding androsterone, the right T-boosting herbs, and prolonged water fasting. (not sure if I would have found all this stuff myself)

guys who have recovered like chi, english, entropy etc. aren't around and 'helped from the good of their heart.' They moved on with their lives.

Cd's ambition to combine goodwill and commerce gives him the motivational leverage to still be helping guys years later.

I appreciate that you're willing to play devil's advocate though and not just follow like a sheep.

I just hope that CD still sticks around to help the people that are grateful for it. I don't know if I would have recovered as far as I did if he just ditched the scene and all I had left was his recovery post. Actually interacting with him has been a god send and helped clarify things more.

He can only help those that want to be helped.

[Cdsnuts]

I don't harbor resentment over this, just disappointment. I was expecting some disclosure regarding your financial motives and instead I got what appeared to be some evasiveness. What do I care if someone want's to make a buck on the side if the protocol works? I care because when the prospect of financial gain and truly empathic giving become intermingled then it evokes some ethically questionable and interesting situations. I won't expound on it here as I'm sure we can all imagine such situations on our own.
Let us be honest here, those that give out of true generosity don't expect to be given appreciation in the form of added loyalty or unquestioning of certain aspects of this "protocol" you've attributed to yourself. And what is it we're really talking about here? Taking cold showers...ingesting some herbs...proper sleep hygiene...working out...eating a paleo diet...groundbreaking right? No. I could have easily gotten this information from reading a few health magazines and books (and I did in fact, before you ever put up your website).
To liken members here to dogs that may bite the hand of the "owner" that feeds them betrays a sense of entitlement that you don't deserve. A hypocrite is not someone who questions the wisdom of others, it is someone who feigns to possess certain virtues or principles. Am I devoid of principles now because I question the wisdom of others? I see you had PVDL banned. He had some legitimate questions for you, it's too bad we never got an answer to them. Good luck trying to patent something like this. You'll be just another muscle-head with a degree in bro-science trying to sell some worthless powder to a bunch of noobs.

You completely miss the point Biz.

I've been helping guys long before the website was ever created. How much of my precious time do you think I can possibly dedicate to doing so if there is not some type of gain for that time. I'm sure you've heard the saying time is money. As rough as that might sound, I have a life to live. I run a full time business and household. The reason the website was created is because more and more of my time was going towards this while it was taking away the time I would spend on other things that I needed to run my life.

And you could have easily gotten all of the information about the protocol on your own huh? BS. If that's the case, you would have. Everyone would have. It took me years to put the information together and have it tested on myself and others who have used it in the combinations described here. Come on...let's not be ridiculous.

And yes....I've done nothing but help you, and you have done nothing but slight me....great trade off, huh?

I tell you what I don't deserve....the disrespect you're showing me. And PVDL...are you serious? The guy is completely negative, and despite the results this program gets people, he didn't want to hear anything about it. I have better things to do with my time then to argue with someone who isn't going to listen. It would have been a complete waste of time. He had his agenda, which was clear from the beginning. He can yell fraudulent all he wants. If that was the case, the guys that rallied around this place wouldn't have done so? They must be all on the take too, right?

It appears your time here has come to an end. If that's how you feel, there really is no reason for you to stay here any longer. Go read your health magazines. I'm sure you'll work it all out. But don't stick around if your going to sit here an insult me. It's completely unwarranted.

And Broscience? You mean, science? The science that you've been following and as per yourself, recovering? Lol... And by worthless powder, you mean the herbs that everybody is rotating and getting fantastic results with? You are a bitter man Biz.

Everybody is here because they're getting results, and because they want to be here. You seem to be focused on something other then your own healing.

[jacknap]

one thing I take my hat too is despite bizbee's disagreeable nature, the dude takes action. So happy recovery buddy lol.

[Hulk Smash]

Bizzbee,

I don't get you man. It sounds like you're following the regimen or atleast most of the main points of it, and you're getting results. Right?

If that's not the case then why have you been on this forum all this time? You don't make sense.

Just put your money where your mouth is 110% with the regimen. Come back in a year and let us know if you've improved or not. Then you have a real argument. Until then, you sound petty. I come to your thread to read about your improvements man, not this crap.

Hope you recover soon.

[bizzbee]

You are quickly becoming the laughing stock of the PFS community. This is not something I recommend you just simply brush off. I'm sure you've read the posts of various detractors and skeptics. The latest one from solvepfs.com involving a screen name containing the letters "XP" comes to mind as a remarkable instance of what happens when you don't firmly disclose your interests upfront; just read for yourself this latest one in order to get a glimpse at the lengths in which some of these people will go in order to discredit an approach to healing. Some of things mentioned seem wildly far-fetched but people who are in compromised positions are likely to believe almost anything. This evasiveness has given zealots like PVDL and XP ammunition to further discredit the movement you and others have started here. I know what their fucking agenda is. They've made it all too clear: recovery is not possible until we've all funneled enough money into the foundation and waited a long enough time to see a cure. All of us here know that THAT is a somewhat far-fetched proposition, that even if true, most of us aren't willing to wait that long. Quashing these sorts rumors and accusations upfront would not have been a waste of time. It would have lent you more credibility and perhaps more followers. Now the skepticism and cynicism has become rampant.

You completely miss the point Biz.

I've been helping guys long before the website was ever created. How much of my precious time do you think I can possibly dedicate to doing so if there is not some type of gain for that time. I'm sure you've heard the saying time is money. As rough as that might sound, I have a life to live. I run a full time business and household. The reason the website was created is because more and more of my time was going towards this while it was taking away the time I would spend on other things that I needed to run my life.

And you could have easily gotten all of the information about the protocol on your own huh? BS. If that's the case, you would have. Everyone would have. It took me years to put the information together and have it tested on myself and others who have used it in the combinations described here. Come on...let's not be ridiculous.

And yes....I've done nothing but help you, and you have done nothing but slight me....great trade off, huh?

I tell you what I don't deserve....the disrespect you're showing me. And PVDL...are you serious? The guy is completely negative, and despite the results this program gets people, he didn't want to hear anything about it. I have better things to do with my time then to argue with someone who isn't going to listen. It would have been a complete waste of time. He had his agenda, which was clear from the beginning. He can yell fraudulent all he wants. If that was the case, the guys that rallied around this place wouldn't have done so? They must be all on the take too, right?

It appears your time here has come to an end. If that's how you feel, there really is no reason for you to stay here any longer. Go read your health magazines. I'm sure you'll work it all out. But don't stick around if your going to sit here an insult me. It's completely unwarranted.

And Broscience? You mean, science? The science that you've been following and as per yourself, recovering? Lol... And by worthless powder, you mean the herbs that everybody is rotating and getting fantastic results with? You are a bitter man Biz.

Everybody is here because they're getting results, and because they want to be here. You seem to be focused on something other then your own healing.