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Thread: Hi everyone

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    Hi everyone

    Hi everyone, I'm not really sure I have a right to post here as I am only three weeks off the drug. But as I'm sure you've all experienced, it's been a hell of a three weeks and I'm sick at looking at horror stories and giving myself a negative feedback loop so I thought I'd rather preempt the possibility of this being a long term thing in the right way rather than just setting myself up for the worst in the wrong way. And before I continue I just want to add that I truly am sorry for and in awe of the people who have kept their heads held high throughout dealing with this bastard long term. Just surviving that with any semblance of normal life is a victory in my opinion.

    So a little about myself. I'm a 30 year old male, extremely fit strength wise and currently studying as a mature student here in Ireland. Last October I got fin prescribed to me online after noticing a minor shed and doing some research on the stuff on Reddit and becoming confident that A. It was safe and that only a tiny minority got any side effects and that B. if I did get side effects then they would clear up as soon as I got off the drug.
    Fast forward to the end of January and I'm going out that night and I decide to pop one off in the shower. Nothing much happens and I end up ejaculating with a semi and I don't think much of it as I didn't have porn to look at and just chalk it up to a bad wank. The next day hungover, and I feel different as usually I'd be very horny hungover but I'm at work and can't test the theory. On Monday, same again. It takes an age to get up even watching porn and I bin the fin. It's not worth it. Over the next few days my energy levels completely evaporated, my mood changed, I had insane levels of mind fog, blurred vision and slurring of words and I was more or less completely impotent other than when I really concentrate watching porn and even then the erections are crap. For about eight days I was near suicidal but then I get a relief from the symptoms, I feel the DHT returning and my body responding. I feel horny again! This lasted for about three days until I feel anxiousness creeping back and my erections disappearing. And other than one miraculous day last Tuesday (14th) where I was feeling better than I was pre fin many of my symptoms are back.

    This is where I am 22 days after quitting the drug:

    *Pretty much completely impotent with zero libido currently. I haven't been able to get it up manually since Thursday.
    *I would describe my mood as severely depressed over the past few weeks but I'm open to the idea that a lot of it may be mental as before even knowing about this site I'd known of Wim Hof and practiced meditation somewhat and upon reading English's post on propeciahelp forum my mood elevated and I've managed to stay positive enough with the help of cold showers, heavy lifting, Wim Hof breathing and some meditation.
    *As well as my my mood lifting this past couple of days, so has the brain fog. I'm able to talk to people and enjoy the conversations again to a degree and concentrate in class better. Again this might indicate to me that my anxiousness was exasperating the problems and that positive thinking and actions can help alleviate this.
    *My genitals most of the time feel numb and I have started to develop varicous veins, particularly noticeable on my testicles but also some on my penis and I often get pains down there which are often preceded by another vein showing up. No shrinkage yet.
    *Two out of the last three days I have woken up with weak morning wood. When this happens I practice kegels to try and force blood through but it quickly disappears.
    *I have awful sleeping patterns, mostly waking up at least four times per night. This leads me to have very low energy most days and it does effect other areas like concentration.


    I guess I have a few questions if anyone would be up to answering them. I'm going to see Dr Andrew Rynne on friday who is listed as having dealt with PFS before on the foundation website. Does anyone have any experience with him or is there anything that I should be asking whilst there? Judging by my symptoms, should I be looking to jump onto the protocol here or am I more wise to wait it out for a few weeks to see if I improve? I have a tripped booked to go to South America with a friend in August for a month, if I do get on the protocol it might be difficult to follow to a T whilst there, is there a way to mitigate the negatives that not being able to adhere to it my bring? Should I consider not going? If not getting on the protocol is my best course of action is there anything else that I may be doing to help with the numbness in my genitals other than the hot baths I've been taking. My currently taking a mixture of vitamins (B,C,D, Zinc, Creatine, l-arginine and garlic tablets) and I have tribulus being delivered today though I am hesitant to take it as I've heard that it can trigger another crash. Any advice in this regard?

    Thank you in advance to anyone willing to read this and answer. I know that the amount of time I've dealt with this is tiny in comparison to some here and my symptoms currently are probably rather minor at this stage compared with what many have gone through. I just want to make the next few steps that I take the best that I can.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by coppersocks View Post
    Hi everyone, I'm not really sure I have a right to post here as I am only three weeks off the drug. But as I'm sure you've all experienced, it's been a hell of a three weeks and I'm sick at looking at horror stories and giving myself a negative feedback loop so I thought I'd rather preempt the possibility of this being a long term thing in the right way rather than just setting myself up for the worst in the wrong way. And before I continue I just want to add that I truly am sorry for and in awe of the people who have kept their heads held high throughout dealing with this bastard long term. Just surviving that with any semblance of normal life is a victory in my opinion.

    So a little about myself. I'm a 30 year old male, extremely fit strength wise and currently studying as a mature student here in Ireland. Last October I got fin prescribed to me online after noticing a minor shed and doing some research on the stuff on Reddit and becoming confident that A. It was safe and that only a tiny minority got any side effects and that B. if I did get side effects then they would clear up as soon as I got off the drug.
    Fast forward to the end of January and I'm going out that night and I decide to pop one off in the shower. Nothing much happens and I end up ejaculating with a semi and I don't think much of it as I didn't have porn to look at and just chalk it up to a bad wank. The next day hungover, and I feel different as usually I'd be very horny hungover but I'm at work and can't test the theory. On Monday, same again. It takes an age to get up even watching porn and I bin the fin. It's not worth it. Over the next few days my energy levels completely evaporated, my mood changed, I had insane levels of mind fog, blurred vision and slurring of words and I was more or less completely impotent other than when I really concentrate watching porn and even then the erections are crap. For about eight days I was near suicidal but then I get a relief from the symptoms, I feel the DHT returning and my body responding. I feel horny again! This lasted for about three days until I feel anxiousness creeping back and my erections disappearing. And other than one miraculous day last Tuesday (14th) where I was feeling better than I was pre fin many of my symptoms are back.

    This is where I am 22 days after quitting the drug:

    *Pretty much completely impotent with zero libido currently. I haven't been able to get it up manually since Thursday.
    *I would describe my mood as severely depressed over the past few weeks but I'm open to the idea that a lot of it may be mental as before even knowing about this site I'd known of Wim Hof and practiced meditation somewhat and upon reading English's post on propeciahelp forum my mood elevated and I've managed to stay positive enough with the help of cold showers, heavy lifting, Wim Hof breathing and some meditation.
    *As well as my my mood lifting this past couple of days, so has the brain fog. I'm able to talk to people and enjoy the conversations again to a degree and concentrate in class better. Again this might indicate to me that my anxiousness was exasperating the problems and that positive thinking and actions can help alleviate this.
    *My genitals most of the time feel numb and I have started to develop varicous veins, particularly noticeable on my testicles but also some on my penis and I often get pains down there which are often preceded by another vein showing up. No shrinkage yet.
    *Two out of the last three days I have woken up with weak morning wood. When this happens I practice kegels to try and force blood through but it quickly disappears.
    *I have awful sleeping patterns, mostly waking up at least four times per night. This leads me to have very low energy most days and it does effect other areas like concentration.


    I guess I have a few questions if anyone would be up to answering them. I'm going to see Dr Andrew Rynne on friday who is listed as having dealt with PFS before on the foundation website. Does anyone have any experience with him or is there anything that I should be asking whilst there? Judging by my symptoms, should I be looking to jump onto the protocol here or am I more wise to wait it out for a few weeks to see if I improve? I have a tripped booked to go to South America with a friend in August for a month, if I do get on the protocol it might be difficult to follow to a T whilst there, is there a way to mitigate the negatives that not being able to adhere to it my bring? Should I consider not going? If not getting on the protocol is my best course of action is there anything else that I may be doing to help with the numbness in my genitals other than the hot baths I've been taking. My currently taking a mixture of vitamins (B,C,D, Zinc, Creatine, l-arginine and garlic tablets) and I have tribulus being delivered today though I am hesitant to take it as I've heard that it can trigger another crash. Any advice in this regard?

    Thank you in advance to anyone willing to read this and answer. I know that the amount of time I've dealt with this is tiny in comparison to some here and my symptoms currently are probably rather minor at this stage compared with what many have gone through. I just want to make the next few steps that I take the best that I can.
    Welcome.

    Because you are so new off of the drug and you were only on it for such a short amount of time, I bet if you jumped on the protocol now, you'd be pretty much good to go for your South America trip in August.

    No need to waste anymore time trying to decide. We know what you need to do....you just have to convince yourself that is what you need. The sooner you start the sooner your nightmare will be over.

    Follow the directions here: Total Male Optimization Just another WordPress site
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

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    Hi Coppersocks,

    My advice to you is this as follows as my situation is very similiar to yours and I am also based in Ireland.

    1. Get off all other forums relating to finasteride side effects like propecia help, HairLossTalk etc Do not look at them, they will set you back no end and will seriously damage your psychological state at this stage, you need hope now, this site will give you hope. I seriously fucked myself up reading those sites, most mean well but there are guys there determined to believe that PFS is permanent and that you are fucked for life, every scientific post they write just goes round in a circle and that's why many have been logging in for years, they will never get better with that mindset. they shoot down any posts suggesting otherwise, a negative circle jerk. Stay away. I read a post from the guy English stating something similiar. I truly believe that if men got hit with PFS and found Swole Source first instead of Propecia Help there would be far more recoveries. I trawled through that shit for months before I found Swole Source so you've done well finding it early on. The negative stories can imprint on your brain leading men to believe it's all over, it's not.

    2. Get on the protocol asap, I have introduced elements and am gearing up to go full on, it's already helping me

    3. Don't drink alcohol and no fap for now. Very important.

    Again for me I took ten steps backwards before I got here so you can avoid that. I spent a fortune on docs first few months and spoke to Dr Rynne but I believe here is the way to go man, doctors did not help me. Dr Rynne means well but again I nearly had a total meltdown when I read some of his posts online as in you are doomed and it's permanent. I think he looks at TRT and drug treatment but again here is the way to go.

    To wrap up stay positive, believe it's only temporary and just hang here until you get better.

    Good luck

    Jimmy

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyjonas View Post
    Hi Coppersocks,

    My advice to you is this as follows as my situation is very similiar to yours and I am also based in Ireland.

    1. Get off all other forums relating to finasteride side effects like propecia help, HairLossTalk etc Do not look at them, they will set you back no end and will seriously damage your psychological state at this stage, you need hope now, this site will give you hope. I seriously fucked myself up reading those sites, most mean well but there are guys there determined to believe that PFS is permanent and that you are fucked for life, every scientific post they write just goes round in a circle and that's why many have been logging in for years, they will never get better with that mindset. they shoot down any posts suggesting otherwise, a negative circle jerk. Stay away. I read a post from the guy English stating something similiar. I truly believe that if men got hit with PFS and found Swole Source first instead of Propecia Help there would be far more recoveries. I trawled through that shit for months before I found Swole Source so you've done well finding it early on. The negative stories can imprint on your brain leading men to believe it's all over, it's not.

    2. Get on the protocol asap, I have introduced elements and am gearing up to go full on, it's already helping me

    3. Don't drink alcohol and no fap for now. Very important.

    Again for me I took ten steps backwards before I got here so you can avoid that. I spent a fortune on docs first few months and spoke to Dr Rynne but I believe here is the way to go man, doctors did not help me. Dr Rynne means well but again I nearly had a total meltdown when I read some of his posts online as in you are doomed and it's permanent. I think he looks at TRT and drug treatment but again here is the way to go.

    To wrap up stay positive, believe it's only temporary and just hang here until you get better.

    Good luck

    Jimmy
    Good for you.

    Wait until you see what a 100% commitment will bring you. Make it your life. Stay the course. You'll be out of the woods before you know it.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

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    Thanks for the words guys. You're very right jimmy, those sites did as much for my anxiety as the actual symptoms and they contributed massively towards some very dark thoughts, the likes of which I never intend to have again.
    CDsnuts, I've been going through your protocol this past couple of hours and am writing down my next steps. I'll be purchasing the herbs this week with a view to starting at least a weeks juice feast coming up. I'm very much considering quitting my part time job in order to concentrate solely on recovery and college work. Out of the various things listed on the protocol I am already experienced with cold water therapy, meditation, the Wim Hof method, paleo diet (though so far I've never subscribed to it wholeheartedly as I like bread too much!) and weight lifting. This will give me a base of familiarity from which to build.
    I have a couple of questions.
    1. In regards to weight lifting I currently do varying version's of Layne Nortons PHAT routine which is quite intensive and volume heavy. Am I OK to continue with this post feast or is it recommended that I use a less strenuous routine?
    2. Have you any experience with the nootropic piracetaam? I took it for about three months last year and I have to say the the results were what I would describe as the opposite to PFS, increased mental clarity, word recall, general memory etc... Am I advised to just stick to those listed or would it be ok add this to my stack?
    3. If my trip to the doctor ends with him advising me on some form of TRT or erectile dysfunction drug, what would be your advise here? To turn it down? It seems that hormone replacement seems to only be of short term benefit most PFS in my experience.
    4. Unfortunately there's one thing on the list that I know that I absolutely will not be able to do. Sunning my boys is out. I live in Ireland.

    Again thanks for both your feedback. Since reading English's post and then coming here I feel much more focused on recovery instead of the intense... grief I had over my symptoms and for what they might mean for my life and whether I wanted to actually live that life. And for that I thank you again CDsnuts. For the first time in three weeks I no long hope to get better but know I will. However long it takes I'll get there, I'll keep you all updated.

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    Also Jimmy, can I ask what symptoms you have and what have you seen some relief on since implementing some of the protocol? I love hearing positive stories! Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by coppersocks View Post
    Thanks for the words guys. You're very right jimmy, those sites did as much for my anxiety as the actual symptoms and they contributed massively towards some very dark thoughts, the likes of which I never intend to have again.
    CDsnuts, I've been going through your protocol this past couple of hours and am writing down my next steps. I'll be purchasing the herbs this week with a view to starting at least a weeks juice feast coming up. I'm very much considering quitting my part time job in order to concentrate solely on recovery and college work. Out of the various things listed on the protocol I am already experienced with cold water therapy, meditation, the Wim Hof method, paleo diet (though so far I've never subscribed to it wholeheartedly as I like bread too much!) and weight lifting. This will give me a base of familiarity from which to build.
    If you have to have bread, get a gluten free variety. You need to AVOID GLUTEN
    I have a couple of questions.
    1. In regards to weight lifting I currently do varying version's of Layne Nortons PHAT routine which is quite intensive and volume heavy. Am I OK to continue with this post feast or is it recommended that I use a less strenuous routine?
    The routine is fine but you want to gauge your intensity after the feast because you're going to be a bit weaker right afterwords then you typically would be. You don't want to over do it and cause a cortisol spike....tread lightly for a few days/weeks
    2. Have you any experience with the nootropic piracetaam? I took it for about three months last year and I have to say the the results were what I would describe as the opposite to PFS, increased mental clarity, word recall, general memory etc... Am I advised to just stick to those listed or would it be ok add this to my stack?I personally like nootropics. Just becareful with some of them because certain ones are known to kill libido after continued use such as Noopept. They are best used sparingly for when you need the extra kick. I'm actually going to have a page on them as well.
    3. If my trip to the doctor ends with him advising me on some form of TRT or erectile dysfunction drug, what would be your advise here? To turn it down? It seems that hormone replacement seems to only be of short term benefit most PFS in my experience. TRT....turn it down. Don't even consider it. If he prescribes you some type of PDE5 inhibitor, they can be useful in certain situations and if used, again, sparingly. You don't want to come to rely on them but every once in awhile during the beginning of your recovery is fine because it will help build your confidence. JUST DON'T OVER DO IT. You could also try horny goat weed instead as it's a natural pde5 inhibitor See here: Horny Goat Weed (aka Epimedium) Total Male Optimization
    4. Unfortunately there's one thing on the list that I know that I absolutely will not be able to do. Sunning my boys is out. I live in Ireland.
    Lol...I guess not much you can do there....just increase your Vit. D intake instead and on the off chance you do see the sun, whip em out!

    Again thanks for both your feedback. Since reading English's post and then coming here I feel much more focused on recovery instead of the intense... grief I had over my symptoms and for what they might mean for my life and whether I wanted to actually live that life. And for that I thank you again CDsnuts. For the first time in three weeks I no long hope to get better but know I will. However long it takes I'll get there, I'll keep you all updated.
    You most certainly will. Remember....this is a lifestyle overhaul and not a magic bullet. Commit 100% and you'll get to where you want to be.

    Good luck to you, and welcome.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

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    I hear you about sunning the boys, I'm from Dublin so Sun is a rare treat!

    Anyway being honest I'm still in the valley with this shit and have a way to go so won't lie to you and say all is rosy, but from going from living in hell for months to periods of at first from half a day to a full week of feeling normal mentally things are turning for me and I am starting to recognise what makes me feel stable and what makes me plummet and send me to the edge.

    My sides are genital numbness (as in shaft doesn't sense touch) and lessened sensitivity in head and testicles, penis has developed a bad curve to left which slowly crept up on me, testicular pain, and loss of morning erections and loss of any libido or desire for my gf and just general loss of mojo for want of a better word. Also severe insomnia ,anxiety, loss of muscle and appetite.

    Now as I said I have not fully embraced the program yet namely the full juice feast, I have started going paleo and hitting gym using hiit and have purchased small amount of herbs still more to go along with brief spells of water fasting for two days is longest I've gone, I am back in work full time so not in a position to do full water fast so I will go juice feast, I have a week off start of march that's when I will hit this full on with feast etc.
    '
    Anyway when I have applied above this has coincided with me feeling mentally much more stable and return of morning erections and small bit of desire/libido so it shows me that if I hit it full on I can only feel much better and that it's working but more importantly I believe in this path, I have no faith in going down the trt/drug route so many it seems have tried it without success.

    I didn't do myself any favours when I first got hit back in October I panicked and went to shit, I used alcohol to calm myself and didn't completely stop fap, I just did not know what I was facing and what was happening to me, I went sick from work and withdrew from friends and family, bear in mind I was super efficient in work and managed a number of staff and also juggled a busy career as a musician before this, it hit me like a train. The biggest disservice I did to myself was constantly researching forums like Propecia help but it's really the first thing that pops up when you research side effects, would be a lot more helpful if it was here as it proves it isn't permanent. The Stories made me suicidal and no doubt ramped up my anxiety and set me back dramatically, there's a lot of good guys there but I got stuck on the forums reading posts by guys such as Mew who had similiar side effects to me and who seems a very smart guy but Jesus he was hell bent on stating that we are fucked and there's no way back from it and just a seriously negative/hopeless vibe on that forum, I just plummeted reading his theories and was very very close to suicide over Christmas then found cds nuts story and English and what they were saying gave me a bit of hope.

    I then found here and have slowly just started looking at this forum, this has helped me as the positivity is what we need to get through, a huge part of this is in the mind, if we give up mentally our bodies will not recover that's my belief anyway. So I see it as one step at a time, get the mind right and with doing what's stated on the protocol the rest will follow. In terms of numbness what helps is extended period of no fap, it improves after that ever so slightly.

    So now my morning wood has returned every day, and that's a good start for me, the numbness is weird as in its still there and fucks with my head but I do think that could be tied to the brain switching off due to severe stress/anxiety it's a tough one as in I cannot honestly remember how sensitive I was beforehand but it still does not feel right yet particularly top of shaft. My sleep and anxiety are still a problem but I'm hoping in time they will improve once my body starts kicking back in.

    Anyway I still have a ways to go and not back to myself, one thing I have learned I just cannot touch drink now it's just like my body and mind cannot handle it so I've completely cut it out which is hard in ireland and because my social life before fin revolved around it but I don't care it's just not worth the downward spiral it causes.

    You are in a great position as you got here early so I hope my path here can teach you a few things about what to avoid and most importantly get on the protocol asap. Just stay positive and if you ever want to meet up for a chat in Dublin give me a shout.

    Good luck man

    Jimmy

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyjonas View Post
    I hear you about sunning the boys, I'm from Dublin so Sun is a rare treat!

    Anyway being honest I'm still in the valley with this shit and have a way to go so won't lie to you and say all is rosy, but from going from living in hell for months to periods of at first from half a day to a full week of feeling normal mentally things are turning for me and I am starting to recognise what makes me feel stable and what makes me plummet and send me to the edge.

    My sides are genital numbness (as in shaft doesn't sense touch) and lessened sensitivity in head and testicles, penis has developed a bad curve to left which slowly crept up on me, testicular pain, and loss of morning erections and loss of any libido or desire for my gf and just general loss of mojo for want of a better word. Also severe insomnia ,anxiety, loss of muscle and appetite.

    Now as I said I have not fully embraced the program yet namely the full juice feast, I have started going paleo and hitting gym using hiit and have purchased small amount of herbs still more to go along with brief spells of water fasting for two days is longest I've gone, I am back in work full time so not in a position to do full water fast so I will go juice feast, I have a week off start of march that's when I will hit this full on with feast etc.
    '
    Anyway when I have applied above this has coincided with me feeling mentally much more stable and return of morning erections and small bit of desire/libido so it shows me that if I hit it full on I can only feel much better and that it's working but more importantly I believe in this path, I have no faith in going down the trt/drug route so many it seems have tried it without success.

    I didn't do myself any favours when I first got hit back in October I panicked and went to shit, I used alcohol to calm myself and didn't completely stop fap, I just did not know what I was facing and what was happening to me, I went sick from work and withdrew from friends and family, bear in mind I was super efficient in work and managed a number of staff and also juggled a busy career as a musician before this, it hit me like a train. The biggest disservice I did to myself was constantly researching forums like Propecia help but it's really the first thing that pops up when you research side effects, would be a lot more helpful if it was here as it proves it isn't permanent. The Stories made me suicidal and no doubt ramped up my anxiety and set me back dramatically, there's a lot of good guys there but I got stuck on the forums reading posts by guys such as Mew who had similiar side effects to me and who seems a very smart guy but Jesus he was hell bent on stating that we are fucked and there's no way back from it and just a seriously negative/hopeless vibe on that forum, I just plummeted reading his theories and was very very close to suicide over Christmas then found cds nuts story and English and what they were saying gave me a bit of hope.

    I then found here and have slowly just started looking at this forum, this has helped me as the positivity is what we need to get through, a huge part of this is in the mind, if we give up mentally our bodies will not recover that's my belief anyway. So I see it as one step at a time, get the mind right and with doing what's stated on the protocol the rest will follow. In terms of numbness what helps is extended period of no fap, it improves after that ever so slightly.

    So now my morning wood has returned every day, and that's a good start for me, the numbness is weird as in its still there and fucks with my head but I do think that could be tied to the brain switching off due to severe stress/anxiety it's a tough one as in I cannot honestly remember how sensitive I was beforehand but it still does not feel right yet particularly top of shaft. My sleep and anxiety are still a problem but I'm hoping in time they will improve once my body starts kicking back in.

    Anyway I still have a ways to go and not back to myself, one thing I have learned I just cannot touch drink now it's just like my body and mind cannot handle it so I've completely cut it out which is hard in ireland and because my social life before fin revolved around it but I don't care it's just not worth the downward spiral it causes.

    You are in a great position as you got here early so I hope my path here can teach you a few things about what to avoid and most importantly get on the protocol asap. Just stay positive and if you ever want to meet up for a chat in Dublin give me a shout.

    Good luck man

    Jimmy
    This is how it starts....

    You'll start to have good, clear days...even if it's just for a little while. The good days will become more often and last longer and the bad days will start to decrease.....little by little. After months and months you'll start to have more good days then bad days until the bad days are in the minority...and then eventually, you won't have anymore bad days..

    You just have to stay the course.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    This is how it starts....

    You'll start to have good, clear days...even if it's just for a little while. The good days will become more often and last longer and the bad days will start to decrease.....little by little. After months and months you'll start to have more good days then bad days until the bad days are in the minority...and then eventually, you won't have anymore bad days..

    You just have to stay the course.
    Thanks man, appreciate the support.

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