Damn...Getting Close with a Lifetime to Optimize

[basementdweller]

nice! how about the muscle loss? has any of it come back?

[Cdsnuts]

Symptom free...six weeks and counting.

You're going to crush it. If you're symptom free already, just wait and see how you're going to feel in another six months. Just wait. Don't do what some guys do and stop everything. You'll be fine, but that's not the point of this. The point is COMPLETE optimization.

Congrats.

When the time comes and you're completely sure, please post in the recovery section.

Thank you!

[Who Dat]

Congrats Damn! I just read your initial post in the thread. Your story sounds so much like mine. Finasteride for a few weeks and then complete physical, mental, emotional and sexual devastation. It is so encouraging to hear the similarities and know that you were able to recover. You mention your plan. Was it the same as the protocol? Is there anything else or different you recommend?

[Damn]

nice! how about the muscle loss? has any of it come back?

Thanks BD. In regards to regaining muscle...Thought a few picture's would be worth a thousand words

IMG_5776 (1).jpg A couple months after my crash (sorry about the low slung pants...After losing so much mass in my ass & thighs, I couldn't keep them up ).

IMG_8182 (1).jpg IMG_8184 (1).jpg About a week ago.

[Damn]

You're going to crush it. If you're symptom free already, just wait and see how you're going to feel in another six months. Just wait. Don't do what some guys do and stop everything. You'll be fine, but that's not the point of this. The point is COMPLETE optimization.

Congrats.

When the time comes and you're completely sure, please post in the recovery section.

Thank you!

Thanks CD. I have no intention of giving any of this up. I have worked far too hard and seen way too many life improvements over the last year and a half to give up now...This is just the beginning of a long journey. Will absolutely post in the recovery section when the time is right.

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks CD. I have no intention of giving any of this up. I have worked far too hard and seen way too many life improvements over the last year and a half to give up now...This is just the beginning of a long journey. Will absolutely post in the recovery section when the time is right.

Good for you.

It just keeps getting better. You'll be surprised.

[Damn]

Congrats Damn! I just read your initial post in the thread. Your story sounds so much like mine. Finasteride for a few weeks and then complete physical, mental, emotional and sexual devastation. It is so encouraging to hear the similarities and know that you were able to recover. You mention your plan. Was it the same as the protocol? Is there anything else or different you recommend?

Thanks Who Dat! Apologies for the delayed response…I wanted to be able to take the time to answer your question properly. But first, It's interesting…I have received quite a few PMs from guys with very similar experiences after taking Fin for a very short period of time (from one or two days to three or four weeks) and having really horrific crashes. I have a hypothesis on this I might run by a few of you at some point. Without getting into the details here, I suspect the physiological pathway to PFS in these cases is slightly different from the others. That said, I believe (even more so, actually) that the fundamental approach to recovery is the same...heal the body at a holistic level and trust it to sort out the details and find homeostasis. Therefore, it is no coincidence that my plan turned out to be very similar to the protocol on TMO which, for the most part, is exactly that. If you are following that then no worries...you are on the right path.

To answer your question, though, I will attempt to highlight the differences in the plan I followed (mostly additional items, but a few things I never thought of and/or decided against). I will also call out those things I added to my plan when I found TMO around the end of 2017, as well as, things I would do differently if I had to do this all over again (almost just shit myself thinking about that possibility ).

Overall:

As I mentioned in my initial post in this thread, my plan was built around optimizing my overall health (with a focus on healing my gut, adrenals & thyroid) in order to provide the optimal environment for my body to heal itself and bring itself back to homeostasis. I know I have already said this in many posts, however, I think it bears repeating…I firmly believe trying to manage & adjust to specific symptoms and hormone levels is an exercise in futility and is frankly counter-productive to recovery, as it just continues to confuse your body and throw it off course as it tries to self-correct. I have attached an illustration from Dr. Rhonda Patrick which documents the (known) bio-chemical pathways in the human body. Take a look at this and tell me how any mortal being could ever figure out how to properly balance any one specific thing without causing a cascade of unintended reactions (you’d have a better chance of repairing the circuitry of an iPhone in the pitch dark with a hammer and a pipe wrench). This is the same reason why pharmaceuticals like Fin can be so harmful because you take them to invoke a specific action, but that usually triggers multiple unforeseen, unintended, and often harmful reactions. But I digress…back to the question.

IMG_8334.JPG

Key differences between the plan I followed and the TMO protocol (BTW…many of these are probably not “differences”, but may just not be explicitly called out in the TMO protocol).

Lifestyle:

• Believed I was going to fully recover. If you can’t honestly do this…stop here
• Did not isolate. This is very easy to do as you all know…Don’t! Get out and do shit. Spend time with your family. Spend time with your friends. Doesn’t matter if they “don’t understand” you. Talk about something else…you didn’t talk about PFS before you had it. Find out how they are doing. Volunteer somewhere and spend time with others who need help more than you do.
• Avoided being a “PFS guy”. Don’t fall into a victim mindset. Develop your plan and fucking forget about PFS. After I developed my plan, I spent over a year away from any PFS related forums and Google searches. I put PFS out of my mind and basically lived my life as a “regular guy” focused on improving his life and his health.
• Didn’t symptom watch. Once I developed my plan, I knew there would be ups & downs, but I did not react to every single one. Shit does not happen overnight. Sometimes the pendulum swings back and forth a few times before it stops in the middle. I only made adjustments if/when I felt I was really trending off the path to recovery. Keep your eyes on your destination not on your feet. Play the long game.
• Didn’t manage to hormones/labs. After my original labs, I have not lab tested since. What’s the point? You’re fooling yourself If you think you can manage to them (point made above). I did not know what they were before I took Fin…I just remember how I felt and know how I felt during and how I feel now.
• Got out in the sun every morning. Even in the Chicago winter I got out in a t-shirt for 15-20 minutes every morning. This is the best time of the day for sun. It helps set your circadian rhythm and reset your cortisol cycle. Go barefoot in the grass if you can.
• Sauna for 20 minutes, 3-4 times a week. Infrared is great if you have access. I paid for it during my original detox, but then just started doing dry sauna at my gym. Best to do after a workout. Hydrate well before & after…Use mineral water or add a bit (not too much) Himalayan salt
• No underwear. Was always a “commando” guy and think this was good for healing. Was difficult at first when everything was rubbery and sweaty and saggy, but believe the sensation of feeling your junk moving and rubbing around helped reestablish some mind-dick connection quickly.
• Edging w/ a partner. Not everything on the list has to be a chore . Did not pump although I can understand the reasoning behind it if you do not currently have a willing partner and/or a willing dick.
• No cheating…not once.
• Laughed a lot…especially at myself. That was one thing I was never gonna let Merck steal from me…fuck that!
• Practiced stress awareness & management. Learning how to do this was one of the silver linings out of all of this and will likely add years to my life. Don’t sweat the small shit.
• Took Epsom salt baths. Great for those with poor magnesium absorption.
• Oil pulled every night. Great to help protect teeth...especially if you have dry mouth at night.
• Added cold showers from TMO around the end of 2017. Love these. Turn the water to full cold, turn on some loud music and go in head first. The only thing different from the protocol is I let myself completely (other than hair) air dry afterwards to force my body to warm itself back up.

Diet:
• Went limited paleo avoiding all grains, cow dairy, nuts & egg whites. Focus on nutrient dense, low-inflammatory foods...can’t overstate the importance of wild caught, pastured & organic.
• Ate a shit ton of high nutrition vegetables.
• Ate a balance of proteins, carbs & fats at every meal
• Ate slowly and chewed food very well. Extremely important for digestion & gut health.
• Hydrated well (not before or after meals as interferes with digestion)
• Ate one raw carrot for snack every day. Great for estrogen detox
• Ate a moderate amount of cruciferous veggies every day. Make sure to steam well for digestion & thyroid reasons. Great for controlling aromatization. Can also do white mushrooms, red grapes, etc.
• Homemade bone broth (daily unless I forgot to make). Great for gut, skin, etc.
• Lots of unrefined coconut oil.
• Dessert – Cacoa nibs, shredded raw coconut (and banana sometimes).
• Drank Pau D’arco tea. Add some fresh lemon & ginger to improve the taste (a little bit like wet cardboard). Good for the gut.
• Used detoxing herbs like parsley, cilantro, basil, ginger, garlic, turmeric, etc. Use in recipes…Great for the detox and makes meals much more interesting.
• Also used Burdock root daily. Great for detox. I put in my homemade chicken soup which I make once a week, freeze and eat almost daily

Supplements:
• Nutrient absorption was shit (food moved through me very quickly) so took B Complex, C, E, Calcium, Magnesium & Zinc until improved
• Digestive enzymes w/ S.Boulardii before every meal
• Probiotics
• Took D3 (12,000 iu/day). For some reason, many of us don't convert well.
• Selenium (via 3-4 Brazil nuts/day...only nuts I eat)
• Iodine – transitioned to seaweed
• Boron
• Tyrosine
• Quercetin
• Omega 3 oil on days I did not eat fish
• L-glutamine
• Collagen (mix in w/ goat kefir)
• Goat whey protein
• Ashwaganda, rhodiola
• Added a few additional herbs from TMO list beginning of 2018. Modified the rotation a little. I take pine pollen & ash every day (take a couple days off every couple weeks). I also grouped the remainder into three basic categories: adaptagens, T-booster/vitality, and nootropics. I rotate one (out o 2-3) from each category every day.
• I added coffee after about a year (avoided caffeine until then for adrenal reasons). Calling a supplement as that is what I use it for (even though I love it and actually look forward to waking up just to have it). Dark roasted (tastes best and least caffeine). Around eight ounces in morning with herbs and another 8 ounces before I workout around 3:00. Haven’t poured it up my ass yet, but am considering .

Exercise:
• I did not start lifting until the end of 2017.
• After my crash, I started walking in the sun every day for 30-60 minutes.
• I then started to do calisthenics and bodyweight exercises (pullups, chin-ups, pushups, sit-ups, squats)
• I then added yoga
• After the first couple months, I also forced myself to stay physically active doing things like home renovations, landscaping, etc. out in the sun.
• I added weight lifting and HIIT around the end of 2017 and quickly progressed towards a pretty intense routine (with amazing results). Would do this as soon as my body (adrenals, etc.) was ready to do. Need to start slowly and listen to body

Other:
My initial detox:
• I did not fast or feast even though a water fast was recommended by a guy I met on PH who had recovered. Was concerned at the time given my thyroid & adrenal issues and my BMI (below 17 after dropping to below 130 pounds).
• Did about 3 months of Liposomal Glutathione
• Did about 6 months of XenoProtX
• Did a one week bone broth fast about 6 months in
• Infrared sauna (almost) daily for first couple months
• Used detox herbs called out above

• No prohormones. I have not ruled out and may consider at some point. I just did not believe they were required for my recovery.

So there you are. Apologies for the long post, but you asked for it . Feel free (anyone) to hit me up with any additional questions.

BTW…guessing from your screen name & location you are a Saints’ fan. My son is a huge Saints' (and especially Brees) fan. Took him to a home game a couple years ago (was pre-Fin so I got to enjoy Bourbon Street ) and then to the playoff game against the Vikings this January…what a crazy (& fucking painful) game that was .

[Master Mal]

So thrilled for you, Damn! You've done a man's job, sir.

If you don't mind me asking, how much time did it take for your sexual symptoms to reverse 100%? I'm right at the end now with that being (aside from some sleep issues) the last symptom left. It's super annoying and I'm staying the course, but I was just curious how that last bit went for you.

Congrats again!

[Cdsnuts]

I just noticed the pictures as when I first saw the post, it was on my phone, and for some reason the pics didn't come up. Well. Done. The difference in muscle mass is phenomenal.

Really, great job Brother.

I know I sound like a broken record when it comes to this, but that's because I've seen guys stop when they should've kept going, way too often. IMO, the best parts don't come until you're recovered and you go past your "normal" baseline.

I know you'll stay with it just based on the tone of your posts. You will see just how good a man can feel on a daily basis. I mentioned this in another thread recently, but I just feel beyond great on a day to day basis. Just existing is pleasurable for me. You'll see what I mean as you continue to grow, mentally and physically. It becomes addicting.

Again, great job man.

Oh...in regards to the biochemical pathway chart you posted.....THIS is exactly why I tell guys that you need to come at this with a holistic approach. There is no possible way that you can micromanage all of the things that our bodies are designed to do with their infinite intelligence. No way. I liken it to playing a game of wack-a-mole. You take care of something over here, and something over there pops up. You take care of that thing, and then another thing pops up. It's an ENDLESS game that you WILL NOT win.

Step out of your own way, give you body and mind what it needs to do it's best work and stay consistent. The rest will certainly follow.

[Who Dat]

Damn, Thanks for the response. A lot of great advice here. Going to add a number of these to my routine. "Commando" LOL!, but a great idea. Anyone who stumbled across this forum without knowing anything about PFS would think we were some kind of crazy cult.

Would be very interested in your theory on our type of PFS. Will DM you if you don't mind.

And big Saint's fan, yes. Relocated here to help rebuild after Katrina and impossible not to get sucked in. Looks like we should have two more runs for it with Brees.