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  1. #21
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    Hi Kate - if you're still here, stick with us. As you can see you've had a lot of people chime in and a lot to read!

    If it's a lot to process, don't worry. As the majority of people have said, there is definitely no "quick fix" for this and it must be so so so upsetting to see your son like this. I can also promise it's hell for him, hell like nothing else. But we have a way out.

    Follow the protocol, as everyone here suggests - just a reminder of that. It's a tough route, but stick it.

    Please, for the time being, do ignore Brazilianguy - his heart's so in the right place but he definitely doesn't have the answers for you. Follow the protocol as we all are, and reap the improvements as we all are. I couldn't recommend anything else. But hell at 19 years old my money's on him being one of the swifter recoveries!

    With any luck a Moderator called Cdnuts will be along shortly - he knows everything there is to know and, if you hadn't guessed already, fixed himself of PFS and wrote the protocol we all follow. I am certain the only advice he'll offer though is to follow and do everything as outlined: Total Male Optimization

    Buy what you can of the herb rotation for Lost Empire as linked, their quality is superb. Don't have to get the whole lot at once but CERTAINLY get enough for a weekly rotation at first, and with the rotation the supply you get in will last for ages.

    So, first thing to do is get the fast underway! I did 7 days myself, and SERIOUSLY I felt 100% on the day after! I'm willing to bet that fasting alone cures some outright even! During that, prepare for the juicing. I'd make that a solid few weeks myself. That should get you time to have the herbs in and start the rotation and the exercise, with a grip on meditation and breathing exercises. Don't miss out ANY part, especially the cold showers. They're no fun but you do get used to them (I'm the biggest complainer when it comes to those honestly!)

    ...And again, 19 years old?? This young man will be a BEAST when he's recovered!

    You're a great mum - keep at this and maybe get him to join us? We're a gruff bunch but we love a committed sufferer working to their recovery. He'd be very welcome here.

    There are other fora working on "cures" (and some are getting huge strides along) but DO NOT go looking for them. I promise you'll spend days/weeks researching dead ends and (worse) spend hundreds on useless supplements and waste a lot of hope and energy. This site here is all you need. Don't worry - if gbold and/or the propeciahelp crew DO find an insta-cure we'll certainly post it up!

    In short, keep helping your son, do the protocol, you'll both get through this.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS7 View Post
    Hi Kate - if you're still here, stick with us. As you can see you've had a lot of people chime in and a lot to read!

    If it's a lot to process, don't worry. As the majority of people have said, there is definitely no "quick fix" for this and it must be so so so upsetting to see your son like this. I can also promise it's hell for him, hell like nothing else. But we have a way out.

    Follow the protocol, as everyone here suggests - just a reminder of that. It's a tough route, but stick it.

    Please, for the time being, do ignore Brazilianguy - his heart's so in the right place but he definitely doesn't have the answers for you. Follow the protocol as we all are, and reap the improvements as we all are. I couldn't recommend anything else. But hell at 19 years old my money's on him being one of the swifter recoveries!

    With any luck a Moderator called Cdnuts will be along shortly - he knows everything there is to know and, if you hadn't guessed already, fixed himself of PFS and wrote the protocol we all follow. I am certain the only advice he'll offer though is to follow and do everything as outlined: Total Male Optimization

    Buy what you can of the herb rotation for Lost Empire as linked, their quality is superb. Don't have to get the whole lot at once but CERTAINLY get enough for a weekly rotation at first, and with the rotation the supply you get in will last for ages.

    So, first thing to do is get the fast underway! I did 7 days myself, and SERIOUSLY I felt 100% on the day after! I'm willing to bet that fasting alone cures some outright even! During that, prepare for the juicing. I'd make that a solid few weeks myself. That should get you time to have the herbs in and start the rotation and the exercise, with a grip on meditation and breathing exercises. Don't miss out ANY part, especially the cold showers. They're no fun but you do get used to them (I'm the biggest complainer when it comes to those honestly!)

    ...And again, 19 years old?? This young man will be a BEAST when he's recovered!

    You're a great mum - keep at this and maybe get him to join us? We're a gruff bunch but we love a committed sufferer working to their recovery. He'd be very welcome here.

    There are other fora working on "cures" (and some are getting huge strides along) but DO NOT go looking for them. I promise you'll spend days/weeks researching dead ends and (worse) spend hundreds on useless supplements and waste a lot of hope and energy. This site here is all you need. Don't worry - if gbold and/or the propeciahelp crew DO find an insta-cure we'll certainly post it up!

    In short, keep helping your son, do the protocol, you'll both get through this.
    Yeah, just ignore me. I just tried to help him. He was obsessed with herbal in powder and I said that some herbs are better in pill form, like androsten (the best tribulus I found). About coffee enemas and liver flush, I didn’t see anybody recovering doing that, if he feels better doing it, keep doing it. He was thinking about fecal matter transplant too, I don’t see how it would make a person better, but if he feels like it could be a good idea, it’s ok.

    Just to remind you guys, I told him about the website and to follow it, but he wasn’t doing the exercises and hiit, keep in mind that people with depression sometimes can’t get out of bed.

    Kate, just ignore all my posts, follow what they say, I just tried to help but I rather keep my mouth shut because I think it’s better to say nothing instead of saying some bullshit.

  3. #23
    A 1k Club Member Feedback Score 0 jacknap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickTheRuler View Post
    Perfectly said. A lot of things recommend may sound counterproductive like lifting while your adrenals are shot or anything else..pfs is a different beast, you just gotta do everything no matter how you feel. I get listening to your body but at the same time you can’t listen to your body, know what I mean???you can tell the difference between the two. One is way more drastic...
    I ignore everything for the most part, it’s almost like at times you can’t trust what your body’s telling you while your recovering, you just have to put your head down and grind.. & go through the symptoms...
    my first couple of weeks of my first Andro run were suicidal depressed madness, but I know it’s cause of lowering estrogen/messing with serotonin.. eventually it got better, and after the cycle my baseline deff got slightly higher. You just have to not give a shit about the changes that are going on & love the process.

    However, I do believe that working out too long causes issues. You can beast in the gym but it has to be an hour tops. That’s about it.. my sessions are short and intense as hell.. it’s worse for you if you get excessive with how long your working out vs how intense it is.. short and explosive. If your gonna go hard as hell only lift 3x a week max... not 5-6 days.. the crazy volume and excessive time in the gym can potentially be equivalent to the effects of too much long distance jogging.. cortisol inferno.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    yeah you can't really trust your body in pfs. my mind was telling me to kill myself and that it was all over but it's not and i'm glad I didn't listen to it. lol
    From rock bottom to rockstar, baby.

  4. #24
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    Hey guys thank you all for your replies every little thing is of great help, just as an update to keep you informed he is still feeling quite depressed and anxious to some extent and feeling most of the effect I mentioned before. Last night he was only able to only sleep about 3 hours so, he was pretty drained for most part of the day, and the upside he was able to take a quick sprint, which gives me hope in that he is able and overcome the lack of energy from all of this and repeat this hopefuly on a daily basis.

    Once again being able to contact any of of personally would be great for boosting his spirits.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kate View Post
    Hey guys thank you all for your replies every little thing is of great help, just as an update to keep you informed he is still feeling quite depressed and anxious to some extent and feeling most of the effect I mentioned before. Last night he was only able to only sleep about 3 hours so, he was pretty drained for most part of the day, and the upside he was able to take a quick sprint, which gives me hope in that he is able and overcome the lack of energy from all of this and repeat this hopefuly on a daily basis.

    Once again being able to contact any of of personally would be great for boosting his spirits.
    Hi there - yes, insomnia and anxiety/depression (as you probably know by now) are symptoms. Unfortunate ones too, as most of them are. If he's already up and doing sprints though that's great! Good start for sure. Usually sleep and mood get better enough that life is manageable over the first few weeks/months, so keep at it. Sexual symptoms (sorry to say) are usually the most stubborn and the last to shift. But we're all different and all respond differently!

    Seems to be though across many recoveries (on this board and off it) that exercise and diet are totally crucial factors. I was in his position myself in October, now I sleep 6-9 hours/night and my mental sides are just enough manageable for work - and I'm WAY older than your son.

    Can he sign up here and talk to us? If not it's no problem. Feel free to PM me but I'll probably say the same thing to you privately as I'd say here. Also, if you can make things more public, someone suffering in the future might read and be helped by your posts and exchanges.

    See if you can spend the day getting the protocol down, planning it, and getting yourself the herbs in. Start with 7, I'd probably ensure tribulus, fo-ti and ashwaganda were in there (might be better opinions on mine on a "starting out" herb cycle) and gradually build up.

    He'll get through it, that's for sure, but it'll never be as quick as he might want it to be. Also the process of getting through it involves big ups and downs, and periods of feeling better then feeling worse - when you start to hit downswings and upswings don't despair at them, they are in themselves a good sign.

    So, next thing to do for you both is get a fast started. I went just about a week myself, water and rest only. After that, juice feast. All that's in the protocol. He'll lose a bit of weight but this pays HUGE dividends in helping the gut to heal, helping the liver expel and deal with the finasteride (at least, that's how I've personally read it.) I mean, a STRICT 7-day fast and then a juice feast on their own MIGHT even fix him! Stranger things have... If not, my most swift and solid improvements came about following my fast.

  6. #26
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazilianguy View Post
    I’m not recovered but I think he should start taking antidepressants if the situation is unbearable. If tribulus didn’t work well for him, he should try other brands or other herbs. I don’t know if it’s a good idea taking too many vitamins, I got bad reactions from vitamin D and omega 3. So maybe less is more.

    I also think too many exercises can be bad if he has adrenal/cortisol problems. A lot of guys in the early stages has suicidal thoughts and depression, it’s neurotransmitter thing that will subside when he starts to improve, it’s actually the first thing to recover (depression) so he needs to understand that this is beateble and read recoveries to see that it’s possible. That’s what I did when I was at my worst.
    More pharmaceuticals aren't the problem. If you want to fix your son, we have everything you need here to do it.

    Brazilian Guy....listen...I appreciate your willingness to help, but to recommend anti-depressants right off the bat like that....come on dude. Did you forget what this forum is all about?
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  7. #27
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazilianguy View Post
    His estradiol is too low, that's the cause of his depression and suicidal thoughts. He needs to see ways of increasing it, the best way to increase is by increasing testosterone. Maybe he could try one thing called triptorelin, but its too strong, so read a lot about it before deciding to take it (it will increase testosterone and estradiol). I think would be a good idea to read about Apr1989 (its a recovered guy from propeciahelp forum) he had low T and low estradiol, he took triptorelin just one shot and his testosterone got stable at a high level. He could also try HCG with a doctor.

    Guys won't be covered me up as much. But if he felt worse doing exercises, maybe he should try only other things. Ask him to call me on skype, I talked to him in the past. He needs to increase his estradiol to 22 at least, and it can't be more than 30.
    Dude....what is your deal lately? You're all over the map. I highly suggest.....no...I ask that you don't give advice to new people to this forum. Because honestly, it's horrible. Everyone here knows what they have to do. That is the only reason this forum is still alive. Why you're trying to tweak this and change that, I have no idea, but stop. You're not helping anyone and could possibly lead them down a worse path.

    Get your shit together Brazilian Guy.....
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    More pharmaceuticals aren't the problem. If you want to fix your son, we have everything you need here to do it.

    Brazilian Guy....listen...I appreciate your willingness to help, but to recommend anti-depressants right off the bat like that....come on dude. Did you forget what this forum is all about?
    It wasn’t right off the bat, I talk to this guy everyday. He was completely desperate and Fausto told me that with antidepressants he could feel better. Fausto is taking ssri and herbs and he is recovering.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    Dude....what is your deal lately? You're all over the map. I highly suggest.....no...I ask that you don't give advice to new people to this forum. Because honestly, it's horrible. Everyone here knows what they have to do. That is the only reason this forum is still alive. Why you're trying to tweak this and change that, I have no idea, but stop. You're not helping anyone and could possibly lead them down a worse path.

    Get your shit together Brazilian Guy.....
    Ok, I won’t give any advice anymore, so if you could talk to him on skype without charging, that would be great because he is a really nice guy that is really depressed.

    It’s not that bad advices when I say that paleo diet, water fast, too much exercises, caffeine, can get you cortisol and adrenal problems, I cut all these parts of your recovery program and I’m feeling much better without it, I’m following the rest, but what I’m trying to say is that if I take only one test booster (I can still take other herbs as long as they don’t increase T etc) and avoid getting my body in a stress state with long running (I know it’s not part of your protocol is just an example), weight lifting, caffeine, paleo etc, I get much better comparing to following your protocol 100%.

    And just to be clear, there is one guy that mixed your protocol with lightattheend protocol that got cured. He basically avoided exercises and caffeine, he was rotating 7 herbs only and recovered in 4 months.

    Edit: The nickname of the guy is Elb, there is another one that did almost the same thing that recovered too his nickname is Beekay. Actually the majority of recoveries are at least 70% like your protocol. So if a person feel worse doing some of the things I don’t see why it’s too bad to cut some parts of the protocol that can be risky to adrenals.

  10. #30
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazilianguy View Post
    It wasn’t right off the bat, I talk to this guy everyday. He was completely desperate and Fausto told me that with antidepressants he could feel better. Fausto is taking ssri and herbs and he is recovering.
    This is not following the protocol.

    It is very clearly outlined. If you guys want to change things around and pick and choose what part to implement, you're not doing yourself or anyone else any favors, especially recommending things that are NOT part of the regimen. This forum is not the place for that.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

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