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  1. #31
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  2. #32
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    It's a good thing that you're feeling good, but just try not to over do it. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Slow and steady progress is better then risking going too hard and back sliding.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  3. #33
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    Symptom-wise, I have been doing great since my last post. I’ve had morning wood about 90-95% of the time when I wake up, compared to about 0% of the time before I started this journey. This is huge for me, emotionally, because that was one of my most bothersome symptoms - I hated waking up every morning feeling like an old man, exhausted, never having MW, and therapists telling me that this was normal in your late 20s and 30s. (Complete bullshit.) My libido is up, but it's not like pre-fin yet. Sensitivity is okay-ish, but not consistently great. I feel more masculine, less tired, and more motivated, but I struggle with procrastination in all aspects of life outside of this program (like finding a better job, and being consistent on my side-business work.) I need to make my other tasks as automatic and routine as going to the gym.

    For those following, I can’t overstate how important it is to abstain from gluten and alcohol. It’s just as important as the herbs and workouts. The other elements are also important, but I started improving much faster when I took gluten seriously and expanded my workouts to the recommended 15 sets.

    I also replaced my plastic shower curtains with polyester ones, and I started using natural laundry detergent as well. I feel like this coincided with my faster improvement.

    I haven’t used my Joov in months, unfortunately. I’m such a night owl, but I should at least try to do it on the weekend mornings.

    I have not done any prohormone cycles. It has always been said that this is optional, but the main reason I haven’t is that I’ve just been lazy about acquring them.

    During PFS, my hair loss almost completely stopped, but now it has restarted. In another year or two, or sooner, I will need to switch to a short haircut. If I can get used to seeing myself with shorter hair, and I will, it’ll be fine. Oviously I will never take any anti-DHT drugs again. I think it could be an additional sign that my DHT receptors are starting to work better than they used to. I don’t remember what the consensus was on PH, whether their hair loss stopped during PFS, and I don’t want to go back there to check. I’m just noting this because it’s a physical change, not because I’m worried about my hair.

    My arms are about 14.15” now, which is significant, considering I’ve been working out for a year. It’s important to eat enough; as you grow, you need to increase your calories to keep growing. My upper-upper arms are considerably bigger (over 15”), because of my intense shoulder workouts, but that also makes my biceps look smaller. I’m “only” lifting about 208 days per year on this schedule, but it would be nearly 300 if I did the classic “4 days on, 1 day off” bodybuilder split. I think that that would lead to more muscle growth, but I wouldn’t want to risk potentially backsliding, as CD said. Also, for routine’s sake, I like doing certain things on certain days, and I like having the weekends off.

    But just for fun:
    Lifting 4 days per week = 208 workouts per year.
    Lifting 5 days per week = 260 workouts per year.
    Doing the “classic bodybuilder split" (4 on, 1 off) = 292 per year.
    Doing the Arnold Split (6 on, 1 off, 2 workouts per day) = 312 workout days per year. 624 total workouts per year.

    I’m sticking with 4 days per week, though when it’s time to cut some fat I will incorporate more cardio on non-lifting days, and add some on lifting days. I don’t want it to take like 4 months to drop 20 lbs, but I also don’t want to lose muscle when I’m cutting.

    Anyway, that’s all for now. I will check back in in 3 to 6 weeks, aiming for about 4 weeks.

  4. #34
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    It’s been about twice as long as normal since my last update, because of the shutdown. My gym is closed, and my home workouts are vastly inferior to what I was able to do in the gym. The routine of going right after work was also very helpful.

    I’ve noticed that in the last 3 or so weeks, my libido has been way up. Not back to pre-fin, but closer. I was a lot younger pre-fin, so who knows if I’ll actually be able to get back to that level, ever, but we’ll see. At my oldest pre-fin age, 26, I would feel a huge amount of urgency after 1 or 2 days of abstinance - to the point where it was incredibly distracting. I have felt the old libido come back a few times on vacations, and randomly during the protocol, but only for about a week at a time. So, maybe I do still have that in me? I hope I have something at least vaguely close to it. I feel like things are moving in that direction.

    I wake up with morning wood most days now, and I can’t even tell you how happy that makes me. I feel like a man again. It’s usually not 10/10, but at least a solid 7 or 8 / 10.

    My ability to feel an orgasm has improved a bit from baseline, but it's still far from normal the vast majority of the time. That was my worst side effect, and it’s still the biggest area where I need improvement.

    I bought the prohormones, and I’m eager to start using them (which I should have way earlier) but with my workouts not being very effective, I feel like I shouldn’t. I feel like I’m supposed to have a more normal, more intense workout regimine in place for about 2 months before using them, and I’m not sure if using them now would be a mistake. On the other hand, I don’t know when the gyms are going to reopen, and I want to get going with it.

    I’m gearing up to leave my job in July or August, to finally open my bankruptcy law firm. (I have been doing volunteer cases, so I know what I’m doing.) My current job is way below my skill levels, and pays way less than what I deserve to earn. I didn’t graduate law school to be working with high school grads, earning a third or a quarter of what my former classmates earn. Oh well, life happens.

    Some of my law school classmates are dead. Several of my high school classmates didn’t make it to 30. My poor first girlfriend didn’t even make it to 28! (Boat accident with her uncle in Florida.) It could be a lot worse. And I had to deal with a lot of struggles (not just PFS) that the people I unfairly compare myself to did not have to deal with. George Foreman has said “If it ain’t positive, I didn’t hear it,” and that’s my mantra right now. Good things are on the way.

  5. #35
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LetsGo View Post
    It’s been about twice as long as normal since my last update, because of the shutdown. My gym is closed, and my home workouts are vastly inferior to what I was able to do in the gym. The routine of going right after work was also very helpful.

    I’ve noticed that in the last 3 or so weeks, my libido has been way up. Not back to pre-fin, but closer. I was a lot younger pre-fin, so who knows if I’ll actually be able to get back to that level, ever, but we’ll see. At my oldest pre-fin age, 26, I would feel a huge amount of urgency after 1 or 2 days of abstinance - to the point where it was incredibly distracting. I have felt the old libido come back a few times on vacations, and randomly during the protocol, but only for about a week at a time. So, maybe I do still have that in me? I hope I have something at least vaguely close to it. I feel like things are moving in that direction.

    I wake up with morning wood most days now, and I can’t even tell you how happy that makes me. I feel like a man again. It’s usually not 10/10, but at least a solid 7 or 8 / 10.

    My ability to feel an orgasm has improved a bit from baseline, but it's still far from normal the vast majority of the time. That was my worst side effect, and it’s still the biggest area where I need improvement.

    I bought the prohormones, and I’m eager to start using them (which I should have way earlier) but with my workouts not being very effective, I feel like I shouldn’t. I feel like I’m supposed to have a more normal, more intense workout regimine in place for about 2 months before using them, and I’m not sure if using them now would be a mistake. On the other hand, I don’t know when the gyms are going to reopen, and I want to get going with it.

    I’m gearing up to leave my job in July or August, to finally open my bankruptcy law firm. (I have been doing volunteer cases, so I know what I’m doing.) My current job is way below my skill levels, and pays way less than what I deserve to earn. I didn’t graduate law school to be working with high school grads, earning a third or a quarter of what my former classmates earn. Oh well, life happens.

    Some of my law school classmates are dead. Several of my high school classmates didn’t make it to 30. My poor first girlfriend didn’t even make it to 28! (Boat accident with her uncle in Florida.) It could be a lot worse. And I had to deal with a lot of struggles (not just PFS) that the people I unfairly compare myself to did not have to deal with. George Foreman has said “If it ain’t positive, I didn’t hear it,” and that’s my mantra right now. Good things are on the way.
    You keep doing what you're doing and libido and erection quality is NOT going to be a problem at ANY age.......BELIEVE ME
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    You keep doing what you're doing and libido and erection quality is NOT going to be a problem at ANY age.......BELIEVE ME
    Thank you, thatís so reassuring to hear

  7. #37
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LetsGo View Post
    Thank you, that’s so reassuring to hear
    It's fact. You'll have ups and downs. Some days you'll feel like you're beating it and then other days you'll feel like you're back to square one, but YOU'RE NOT. This is just the way it works itself out. The only thing you have to do is KEEP GOING. That's it. Everything will eventually fall into place as long as you're consistent.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  8. #38
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    I’ve been on another downswing, and I’ve realized that my at-home “workouts” aren’t remotely cutting it. For several months after I wasn’t really working out much, I feel like I still had the hormonal benefits from my earlier workout regimine. It takes a month or two for the hormonal benefits to kick in when you start a program, and then I guess it takes a few months for them to wear off.

    I need to get heavier weights, there’s not that much I can do with the 4 lbs and 7 lbs dumbbells (which were all I could buy when I first started looking for them.) Going to failure with 7 lbs weights, 15 times per day, just isn’t my thing. I have some 15 lbs ones on the way, which is better but probably not enough. I also need an actual pull up bar to hang from my door. The one I have from my brother is the kind that twists and expands into the door, but it doesn’t feel secure at all and I know I will fall if I use it. (I’m 153 lbs.) I may also get those resistance band things, which might help as well.

    I need to build a meditation practice, I think that would make a difference, at the margins. I’ve been trying to improve my sleep, but it’s not going very well.

    It’s one of those times where I feel like I haven’t made any progress at all, but I do have my old updates to look through and re-read about the upswings that I never used to get (aside from a couple of brief times on vacations.) I’d encourage anyone going through this to keep some form of a journal, and ideally also a calendar, and note any major changes in your workout, diet, herbs, sleep, etc, so you can find patterns. Maybe I should do something like that with an Excel sheet. Hopefully everything is accumulating over time, and I’m not back to zero.

    I had tried doing the prohormones for about a week, hoping it’d break me out of the funk, but I still had zero libido and anhedonia, and realized that using them was a mistake because I wasn’t really working out. I looked through my Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding and came up with a workout plan that I think I can do from home. I will have 2 HIIT days and 4 lifting days, as the program calls for. Then after awhile, I will add either an arms-only day, or a third HIIT day. The grass is too wet and slippery to go running today, but maybe I should run in a paved park area near me.

    To be frank, until about a week ago I had been entirely omitting the HIIT from my regimen, thinking that it was just cardio and that it wouldn’t help my hormones at all. Sprinting is anaerobic, not cardio, so the 30 second sprints are like workout sets. Also, for the first 8 or so months, I was only lifting 3 days per week, often only 10 sets per workout, yet I still made progress. But overall, it wasn’t what it should have been. Also, I was still eating gluten until October - but then I got sick for a month with mono. By doing workouts and HIIT, hopefully I’ll see more rapid progress - especially once I’ve built myself up enough to where I can use the prohomones. I want to be done with this PFS bullshit, but these things cannot be rushed.

    Reluctantly, I’m cutting out rice and quinoa as well, which I was supposed to do from the start. I won’t be able to eat at restaurants now, which is very annoying. I don’t know how I’ll go on dates if I can’t go to bars or restaurants. From what I’ve read, it seems like legumes aren’t considered “paleo” because they have phytites, but they are virtually eliminated by cooking, and “ancient man” did eat beans. I’m not sure if unsweetened almond milk is okay - it’s almonds and water blended together and strained, although I think there are trace amounts of other things as well. I’d like to be able to make smoothies.

    On the TMO website it talks about carb backloading on workout days - eating things like gluten-free pasta (I love red lentil pasta), rice, and both kinds of potatoes in the PM. Maybe a smoothie with my gluten-free oatmeal before bed. I could absolutely do that, especially since I’ll be working out 6 to 7 days per week. And I’d be able to have dinners at restaurants occasionally. I’m just grappling with the rules on this.

    I’ve come up with an alternate way to cycle the herbs that I’m going to experiment with. Basically, one 13-day cycle, and then at the same time, a separate 7-day cycle of the herbs that I feel are less effective (goji berry, iodine, etc.) Every day, I’ll be rotating through both lists and maybe I’ll get better results that way. Plenty of guys only rotate through 13 herbs, so I’m curious to see how this works.

    My hair loss has accellerated significantly. I got a red light laser helmet thing and also ordered a microneedling pen. If those don’t work, then sometime in 2021 it’ll be time to shave my head, or go with a nearly-shaved head - and either way, grow out my beard. As a short white guy, I feel like I’d have to be pretty muscular to pull off the fully shaved head look.

  9. #39
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 DrivenToRecover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LetsGo View Post
    I’ve been on another downswing, and I’ve realized that my at-home “workouts” aren’t remotely cutting it. For several months after I wasn’t really working out much, I feel like I still had the hormonal benefits from my earlier workout regimine. It takes a month or two for the hormonal benefits to kick in when you start a program, and then I guess it takes a few months for them to wear off.

    I need to get heavier weights, there’s not that much I can do with the 4 lbs and 7 lbs dumbbells (which were all I could buy when I first started looking for them.) Going to failure with 7 lbs weights, 15 times per day, just isn’t my thing. I have some 15 lbs ones on the way, which is better but probably not enough. I also need an actual pull up bar to hang from my door. The one I have from my brother is the kind that twists and expands into the door, but it doesn’t feel secure at all and I know I will fall if I use it. (I’m 153 lbs.) I may also get those resistance band things, which might help as well.

    I need to build a meditation practice, I think that would make a difference, at the margins. I’ve been trying to improve my sleep, but it’s not going very well.

    It’s one of those times where I feel like I haven’t made any progress at all, but I do have my old updates to look through and re-read about the upswings that I never used to get (aside from a couple of brief times on vacations.) I’d encourage anyone going through this to keep some form of a journal, and ideally also a calendar, and note any major changes in your workout, diet, herbs, sleep, etc, so you can find patterns. Maybe I should do something like that with an Excel sheet. Hopefully everything is accumulating over time, and I’m not back to zero.

    I had tried doing the prohormones for about a week, hoping it’d break me out of the funk, but I still had zero libido and anhedonia, and realized that using them was a mistake because I wasn’t really working out. I looked through my Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding and came up with a workout plan that I think I can do from home. I will have 2 HIIT days and 4 lifting days, as the program calls for. Then after awhile, I will add either an arms-only day, or a third HIIT day. The grass is too wet and slippery to go running today, but maybe I should run in a paved park area near me.

    To be frank, until about a week ago I had been entirely omitting the HIIT from my regimen, thinking that it was just cardio and that it wouldn’t help my hormones at all. Sprinting is anaerobic, not cardio, so the 30 second sprints are like workout sets. Also, for the first 8 or so months, I was only lifting 3 days per week, often only 10 sets per workout, yet I still made progress. But overall, it wasn’t what it should have been. Also, I was still eating gluten until October - but then I got sick for a month with mono. By doing workouts and HIIT, hopefully I’ll see more rapid progress - especially once I’ve built myself up enough to where I can use the prohomones. I want to be done with this PFS bullshit, but these things cannot be rushed.

    Reluctantly, I’m cutting out rice and quinoa as well, which I was supposed to do from the start. I won’t be able to eat at restaurants now, which is very annoying. I don’t know how I’ll go on dates if I can’t go to bars or restaurants. From what I’ve read, it seems like legumes aren’t considered “paleo” because they have phytites, but they are virtually eliminated by cooking, and “ancient man” did eat beans. I’m not sure if unsweetened almond milk is okay - it’s almonds and water blended together and strained, although I think there are trace amounts of other things as well. I’d like to be able to make smoothies.

    On the TMO website it talks about carb backloading on workout days - eating things like gluten-free pasta (I love red lentil pasta), rice, and both kinds of potatoes in the PM. Maybe a smoothie with my gluten-free oatmeal before bed. I could absolutely do that, especially since I’ll be working out 6 to 7 days per week. And I’d be able to have dinners at restaurants occasionally. I’m just grappling with the rules on this.

    I’ve come up with an alternate way to cycle the herbs that I’m going to experiment with. Basically, one 13-day cycle, and then at the same time, a separate 7-day cycle of the herbs that I feel are less effective (goji berry, iodine, etc.) Every day, I’ll be rotating through both lists and maybe I’ll get better results that way. Plenty of guys only rotate through 13 herbs, so I’m curious to see how this works.

    My hair loss has accellerated significantly. I got a red light laser helmet thing and also ordered a microneedling pen. If those don’t work, then sometime in 2021 it’ll be time to shave my head, or go with a nearly-shaved head - and either way, grow out my beard. As a short white guy, I feel like I’d have to be pretty muscular to pull off the fully shaved head look.
    Yeah man, you'll get better results hormonally from doing any maximum intensity exercise compared to cardio. In my opinion its not even close. I think hormonally you get more benefit from 60 seconds of all out intensity doing burpees than 20 minutes of jogging.

    Those laser helmets are quite expnsive for a nice one. Id honestly say you should shoot for a full body quality red light and just let it hit your head some, and the rest of your body too & get full systemic benefits
    Its only work until its routine

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrivenToRecover View Post
    Yeah man, you'll get better results hormonally from doing any maximum intensity exercise compared to cardio. In my opinion its not even close. I think hormonally you get more benefit from 60 seconds of all out intensity doing burpees than 20 minutes of jogging.

    Those laser helmets are quite expnsive for a nice one. Id honestly say you should shoot for a full body quality red light and just let it hit your head some, and the rest of your body too & get full systemic benefits
    I got a Joovv full body red light setup in 2019, which was about $900. It didnít do anything for my hair, despite me tilting my head down, and to be honest Iím not sure if itís doing anything, or if my hormones are messed up and thatís why I donít feel a major benefit from it. Maybe it helps me in subtle ways. Supposedly itís raising my test but I havenít always been super consistent in using it, because if I use it in the afternoon it gives me insomnia.

    The Joovv makes my balls move up and down slightly, but I donít feel a burst of libido from it like the spokesperson claims. I wonder if it can speed my recovery at all.

    The laser helmet I bought is the iRestore ($500). It has red lights and red lasers. Itís the same wavelength of red light as the Joovv, but apparently the helmetís combo of lasers and light works a lot better for hair growth than just the red light of the Joovv. Plus, it covers my scalp much better. It also goes for 25 minutes, whereas the Joovv is just 5 minutes (otherwise I get insomnia.)

    When I use the iRestore, my whole scalp feels tingly and energized for a few minutes afterwards, so I feel like itís doing something, although I care way more about my pfs recovery than my hair, tbh.

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