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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by LetsGo View Post
    Re-reading the TMO page on this, it seems to only call for a short breath-holding period, not 3 - 4 minutes (permanent brain damage starts at 4 - 5 minutes) as many in the Wim Hof groups do, as if it’s some kind of breath holding contest. I’m personally leery of extreme breath holding (which you can easily do after hyperventilating) and that is probably what causes people the most problems. I’m going to look into it some more.
    You do what's comfortable for you. There are ALOT of people who do Wim Hof and I'm pretty sure none of them are brain damaged from it....lol.

    What problems are you referring to? Most people who practice this have said nothing but how it transformed their lives for the better, myself included. The thing is, people, for the most part, are notoriously horrible at following directions properly. It's just the human condition. Of course you're going to have some people do it wrong and cause their own problems because of it.

    But as you mentioned, it is not a breath holding contest. You do what is comfortable, never forced on the inhales or retentions, holds, etc.
    Last edited by Cdsnuts; 01-23-2021 at 08:13 AM.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  2. #132
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    2 minute breath hold is the sweet spot for me. Around that time I really start feeling the urge to breath. Its enough to make the 15 second breath in after get me high and calm.

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
    2 minute breath hold is the sweet spot for me. Around that time I really start feeling the urge to breath. Its enough to make the 15 second breath in after get me high and calm.
    Then that's where you want to keep it.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  4. #134
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    There is a video on YouTube called “guided Wim Hof breathing” from wim hof himself. That’s what I use.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zonz View Post
    There is a video on YouTube called “guided Wim Hof breathing” from wim hof himself. That’s what I use.
    That's a good resource to use for anyone interested.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  6. #136
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    I guess it’s time for another update.

    I’ve been on a big downswing since about a month ago, when my last upswing ended. The downswing has intensified and I don’t get morning wood at all now. I got the nice juicer that I ordered, and although TMO says to use a blender, I think it’ll be fine to use a juicer to make your daily juice if you prefer that method. I always took the blender and nut milk bag technique as a suggestion.

    I’ve been feeling pretty anxious lately, particularly this last week. In the last 2 days I only got about 4 hours of sleep each night. I’ve been staying up at night Googling some stuff about an unrelated issue:

    Brief Diversion - feel free to skip
    So last week, I went for a hair transplant consultation in NYC and the surgeon (and his protege surgeon) said that there’s a 40% chance that I have an extremely rare type of hair loss that usually only happens in post-menopausal women, and he’d need to do a biopsy to get more info. It’s called FFA and it causes the vellus hairs (the very thin baby hairs) to die, and then the regular hairs die as well, although a few stragglers are left behind as the baldness moves backwards from your hairline. However, in my case, it’s following a traditional male pattern baldness path, and not a straight line like it normally does with FFA.

    With FFA, there’s scarring under the skin, and some research papers have speculated that it could be caused by insufficient DHEA causing a certain fat-related enzyme not to activate. This then causes the fat cells in the scalp to die and scar up, killing your hair. This disease was first reported in the early 1990s, and almost never hits men (especially not men in their 30s.) Maybe most men have too much test and DHEA to get affected, and I got FFA because of PFS, but I’m not sure. I don’t remember hearing of anyone else with PFS who has FFA. Anyway, the upshot is that if I have FFA, I can’t get a transplant, despite having the money and donor hair, because the FFA would just destroy the transplant within a few years.

    Also, FFA may end up destroying my eyebrows, which have always been thin. (It can also wipe out your pubic and armpit hair, but I don’t care about either of those.) If that happens then I’ll probably get “microblading” which lasts about a year and seems to look more realistic than eyebrow tattoos. I’d be a bit leery of getting permanent eyebrow tattoos because I don’t know how realistic they’d look and I’d worry about having to live with any mistakes that the tattooer did. But I will absolutely not go with a “no eyebrows” look, period. I will find a way to address my eyebrows if I lose them. And if I have to rock a shaved head look, I would just have to find a way to get used to a very different-looking man in the mirror, or hide under an expensive fake hair system to try to look younger and more attractive.

    The main thing doctors use to stop FFA is dutasteride or finasteride, which are completely unthinkable for me. There are also steroid injections (not anabolic steroids) and some other things they can try. I don’t officially know that I have FFA, he said it was a 40% chance, but after doing research it seems more like a 99% chance to me. I don’t have any vellus hairs in my balding front, so I don’t see how it’s possible that I could have regular male-pattern baldness. I had no idea that you were supposed to have vellus hairs in your balding regions, no wonder the red laser stuff didn’t regrow anything. I’m not sure if its even possible to have male pattern baldness without those miniaturizing vellus hairs, but somehow my surgeon still said it was 60% likely to be male pattern baldness. (This is the one time in my life where I’m hoping I have male pattern baldness, lol.) I also have a huge very thin area about the size of the palm of my hand, on the crown area. Not sure if I have vellus hairs back there or not.

    If I can’t get a hair transplant, then I will eventually have to decide between shaving my head or getting a “hair system”. But we’re not at that point yet. I’ve been looking back at old photos of myself from my 20s; I was really handsome, and I’m way less handsome now. Sometimes I feel washed-up, but I have to keep my spirits up as best as I can. I think there’s still a lot of happiness that I can have, and I want to hurry up and reach that point. (My great afterlife fantasy is that someday I’ll get to relive my life, making better choices. But in the here and now it’s incredibly important to forgive myself / not carry a grudge against myself, and develop unconditional self-love.)

    I should find out the results of my biopsy on 2/19 or 2/22. If it somehow turns out that I have male pattern baldness, I’m not jumping into surgery like I originally planned to, I’ll want to see a certain dermatologist who sees a lot of FFA patients and get his take on it. Whatever it is, I will deal with it and honestly recovering from PFS is more important to worry about.

    Back to recovery stuff
    I think the tribulus that I have is garbage. I got the one from bulksupplements.com, and I should probably find a better brand. I was reading that “medi-herbs standard process” is far and away the best kind, and that “vemo herb” is also good but not as strong. The Standard Process stuff can only be purchased in person, at certain chiropractors and naturopath doctors, and it’s over a dollar per pill. Apparently regular tribulus is garbage; they make it out of the tribulus fruit. Supposedly the active ingredient only develops in Bulgarian & Slovakian grown tribulus, and only in the leaves and stems, not the flower or fruit. Most of what is sold in the US is therefore worthless. The stuff that actually works ends up costing 50 cents a pill or $1.50, or even $2. Which is all completely fine, I just want to get the good stuff.

    Right now I’m in the middle of a heavy downswing, where I don’t seem to have any libido at all and days go by where I’m not even thinking about women or masturbating. In times like this, it feels like my progress has been erased, and it doesn’t feel like my upswings are bringing me to higher baselines and then building up to a higher upswing, like they’re supposed to. It just feels like I have upswings 4 or 5 times per year and that’s it. I would need to go back and re-read my thread to see if that’s true, but emotionally, that’s what “feels” true today. (I’m just in a melancholy mood.)

    Almost exactly 2 years ago I did my first juice feast, except I had used frozen fresh-made juices that I had shipped out to me. I think I still did make good progress at first, and was thinking and hoping that this would be a quick 6 month ride. However, I didn’t get the full and proper benefits from my juice feast, because I was using frozen juices. But when I was temporarily on a broth diet due to mono, after that was when I had my biggest upswing ever. I had morning wood for like 8 months in a row! I’m wondering if I will need to do semi-regular juice feasts a few times per year, but if this gives me my morning wood back then I will feel like that’s a good platform to recover the rest of the way.

    I’m thinking I should do 2 weeks of juice feasting, possibly 3. I’m not going to do 45 days like CD did, though. I’ll do 2 weeks and see where I’m at. I know CD said he did many water fasts and juice feasts throughout his recovery, so I’m not sure if perhaps it’s not a one and done thing for me. I never had these kinds of lows after my accidental broth fast, except several months after my gym closed due to Covid.

    The other significant thing is that my boss has hinted at the possibility of me replacing him when he eventually retires (maybe this year, maybe next year, I don’t know), but I really want to have my own law firm and live in NYC. Also, I’m not so sure that I’d get picked, since my co-worker is a higher salary grade than me. I really don’t like this small city, and I don’t know that I could ever find the love of my life here. Besides, if my business does even somewhat decently, I should be making at least $200k, which is a lot more than I’d earn in the government supervisor role. I need to keep pushing, despite exhaustion and low hormones, and find a way to make my dreams come true.

    I’ve spent about $400 on my ads (which are finally working) this month, and got 2 leads, neither of which has panned out so far, but I have to keep going. My therapist said that at a certain point, I may just have to jump in and move to NYC and make it all work there, rather than building a “proof of concept” up here and then moving down to NYC when I know that my business blueprint works. I’ve sunk about $6k into the business for startup costs so I’m somewhat reluctant to just try to get a regular associate job; I would absolutely prefer to just make a go of this on my own, be my own boss, and make good money doing something that I enjoy. Get into a nice relationship and recover enough from PFS to be able to enjoy sex, and finally start enjoying my life.

    Anyhow, I’m exhausted. I’m going to drag myself over to the grocery store to buy a bunch of fruits and vegetables. In a perfect world, tomorrow I will start my juice feast. If not, then it starts on Friday or Saturday at the latest.

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by LetsGo View Post
    I guess it’s time for another update.

    I’ve been on a big downswing since about a month ago, when my last upswing ended. The downswing has intensified and I don’t get morning wood at all now. I got the nice juicer that I ordered, and although TMO says to use a blender, I think it’ll be fine to use a juicer to make your daily juice if you prefer that method. I always took the blender and nut milk bag technique as a suggestion.

    I’ve been feeling pretty anxious lately, particularly this last week. In the last 2 days I only got about 4 hours of sleep each night. I’ve been staying up at night Googling some stuff about an unrelated issue:

    Brief Diversion - feel free to skip
    So last week, I went for a hair transplant consultation in NYC and the surgeon (and his protege surgeon) said that there’s a 40% chance that I have an extremely rare type of hair loss that usually only happens in post-menopausal women, and he’d need to do a biopsy to get more info. It’s called FFA and it causes the vellus hairs (the very thin baby hairs) to die, and then the regular hairs die as well, although a few stragglers are left behind as the baldness moves backwards from your hairline. However, in my case, it’s following a traditional male pattern baldness path, and not a straight line like it normally does with FFA.

    With FFA, there’s scarring under the skin, and some research papers have speculated that it could be caused by insufficient DHEA causing a certain fat-related enzyme not to activate. This then causes the fat cells in the scalp to die and scar up, killing your hair. This disease was first reported in the early 1990s, and almost never hits men (especially not men in their 30s.) Maybe most men have too much test and DHEA to get affected, and I got FFA because of PFS, but I’m not sure. I don’t remember hearing of anyone else with PFS who has FFA. Anyway, the upshot is that if I have FFA, I can’t get a transplant, despite having the money and donor hair, because the FFA would just destroy the transplant within a few years.

    Also, FFA may end up destroying my eyebrows, which have always been thin. (It can also wipe out your pubic and armpit hair, but I don’t care about either of those.) If that happens then I’ll probably get “microblading” which lasts about a year and seems to look more realistic than eyebrow tattoos. I’d be a bit leery of getting permanent eyebrow tattoos because I don’t know how realistic they’d look and I’d worry about having to live with any mistakes that the tattooer did. But I will absolutely not go with a “no eyebrows” look, period. I will find a way to address my eyebrows if I lose them. And if I have to rock a shaved head look, I would just have to find a way to get used to a very different-looking man in the mirror, or hide under an expensive fake hair system to try to look younger and more attractive.

    The main thing doctors use to stop FFA is dutasteride or finasteride, which are completely unthinkable for me. There are also steroid injections (not anabolic steroids) and some other things they can try. I don’t officially know that I have FFA, he said it was a 40% chance, but after doing research it seems more like a 99% chance to me. I don’t have any vellus hairs in my balding front, so I don’t see how it’s possible that I could have regular male-pattern baldness. I had no idea that you were supposed to have vellus hairs in your balding regions, no wonder the red laser stuff didn’t regrow anything. I’m not sure if its even possible to have male pattern baldness without those miniaturizing vellus hairs, but somehow my surgeon still said it was 60% likely to be male pattern baldness. (This is the one time in my life where I’m hoping I have male pattern baldness, lol.) I also have a huge very thin area about the size of the palm of my hand, on the crown area. Not sure if I have vellus hairs back there or not.

    If I can’t get a hair transplant, then I will eventually have to decide between shaving my head or getting a “hair system”. But we’re not at that point yet. I’ve been looking back at old photos of myself from my 20s; I was really handsome, and I’m way less handsome now. Sometimes I feel washed-up, but I have to keep my spirits up as best as I can. I think there’s still a lot of happiness that I can have, and I want to hurry up and reach that point. (My great afterlife fantasy is that someday I’ll get to relive my life, making better choices. But in the here and now it’s incredibly important to forgive myself / not carry a grudge against myself, and develop unconditional self-love.)

    I should find out the results of my biopsy on 2/19 or 2/22. If it somehow turns out that I have male pattern baldness, I’m not jumping into surgery like I originally planned to, I’ll want to see a certain dermatologist who sees a lot of FFA patients and get his take on it. Whatever it is, I will deal with it and honestly recovering from PFS is more important to worry about.

    Back to recovery stuff
    I think the tribulus that I have is garbage. I got the one from bulksupplements.com, and I should probably find a better brand. I was reading that “medi-herbs standard process” is far and away the best kind, and that “vemo herb” is also good but not as strong. The Standard Process stuff can only be purchased in person, at certain chiropractors and naturopath doctors, and it’s over a dollar per pill. Apparently regular tribulus is garbage; they make it out of the tribulus fruit. Supposedly the active ingredient only develops in Bulgarian & Slovakian grown tribulus, and only in the leaves and stems, not the flower or fruit. Most of what is sold in the US is therefore worthless. The stuff that actually works ends up costing 50 cents a pill or $1.50, or even $2. Which is all completely fine, I just want to get the good stuff.

    Right now I’m in the middle of a heavy downswing, where I don’t seem to have any libido at all and days go by where I’m not even thinking about women or masturbating. In times like this, it feels like my progress has been erased, and it doesn’t feel like my upswings are bringing me to higher baselines and then building up to a higher upswing, like they’re supposed to. It just feels like I have upswings 4 or 5 times per year and that’s it. I would need to go back and re-read my thread to see if that’s true, but emotionally, that’s what “feels” true today. (I’m just in a melancholy mood.)

    Almost exactly 2 years ago I did my first juice feast, except I had used frozen fresh-made juices that I had shipped out to me. I think I still did make good progress at first, and was thinking and hoping that this would be a quick 6 month ride. However, I didn’t get the full and proper benefits from my juice feast, because I was using frozen juices. But when I was temporarily on a broth diet due to mono, after that was when I had my biggest upswing ever. I had morning wood for like 8 months in a row! I’m wondering if I will need to do semi-regular juice feasts a few times per year, but if this gives me my morning wood back then I will feel like that’s a good platform to recover the rest of the way.

    I’m thinking I should do 2 weeks of juice feasting, possibly 3. I’m not going to do 45 days like CD did, though. I’ll do 2 weeks and see where I’m at. I know CD said he did many water fasts and juice feasts throughout his recovery, so I’m not sure if perhaps it’s not a one and done thing for me. I never had these kinds of lows after my accidental broth fast, except several months after my gym closed due to Covid.

    The other significant thing is that my boss has hinted at the possibility of me replacing him when he eventually retires (maybe this year, maybe next year, I don’t know), but I really want to have my own law firm and live in NYC. Also, I’m not so sure that I’d get picked, since my co-worker is a higher salary grade than me. I really don’t like this small city, and I don’t know that I could ever find the love of my life here. Besides, if my business does even somewhat decently, I should be making at least $200k, which is a lot more than I’d earn in the government supervisor role. I need to keep pushing, despite exhaustion and low hormones, and find a way to make my dreams come true.

    I’ve spent about $400 on my ads (which are finally working) this month, and got 2 leads, neither of which has panned out so far, but I have to keep going. My therapist said that at a certain point, I may just have to jump in and move to NYC and make it all work there, rather than building a “proof of concept” up here and then moving down to NYC when I know that my business blueprint works. I’ve sunk about $6k into the business for startup costs so I’m somewhat reluctant to just try to get a regular associate job; I would absolutely prefer to just make a go of this on my own, be my own boss, and make good money doing something that I enjoy. Get into a nice relationship and recover enough from PFS to be able to enjoy sex, and finally start enjoying my life.

    Anyhow, I’m exhausted. I’m going to drag myself over to the grocery store to buy a bunch of fruits and vegetables. In a perfect world, tomorrow I will start my juice feast. If not, then it starts on Friday or Saturday at the latest.
    Honestly bro, shave that shit and move on. The bald look is in. You seem like you’re creating big mountains in your head and it’s stressing you out, you’re gonna look fine.

    I use 100:1 organic tribulus by Micro-ingredients and it’s the bees knees. I’ve been meaning to recommend it to @Cdsnuts to use on TMO because I love it. One of the best herbs I have by far. The only issue is it tastes like straight ass, think tongkat, but a big spoonful of it.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    Honestly bro, shave that shit and move on. The bald look is in. You seem like you’re creating big mountains in your head and it’s stressing you out, you’re gonna look fine.

    I use 100:1 organic tribulus by Micro-ingredients and it’s the bees knees. I’ve been meaning to recommend it to @Cdsnuts to use on TMO because I love it. One of the best herbs I have by far. The only issue is it tastes like straight ass, think tongkat, but a big spoonful of it.
    Gonna check it out. Thanks for remembering.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  9. #139
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    My sleep is absolutely horrible. I’ve been getting about 5 hours per night and it’s wrecking things.

    I felt very sleepy and went to bed at 10pm, which is insanely early for me. But I woke up, wide awake, at 12:30 because I was somewhat thirsty and now 3 hours later, I still can’t fall back asleep. I know I’m going to be even more tired at work.

    I took some albiza and maybe that’ll help me fall back asleep. I need to get a few more hours of sleep tonight if I can.

  10. #140
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    Jucin’ Update:

    Day 2

    My juicer is making this whole process easy. Between prep and cleanup, it takes less than 30 minutes to make 4 to 5 liters of juice. I clean out the machine (which takes about 5 minutes) after I’m done making all of my juice, and I use a bag in the pulp catching container. Of course, the grocery runs also take time, and the cashiers gave me weird looks when they saw the enormous amount of produce in my cart. If I lived near a grocery store, it would be incredibly easy to keep this going for 45 days like CD did, back in the day.

    If you’re going to get a dedicated juicer, don’t cheap out and get a $100 or $150 one. Those are crap. Get a high-end $350 one. One of the plusses is that it’ll actually save you money on fruit and greens - my juicer leaves me with bone-dry pulp, so I know I’m not leaving much juice behind. If you have soggy pulp, that means you need more fruit/greens to get the same amount of juice, and in the long run that could be more expensive than just getting a more efficient machine. On the other hand, everyone has their own preferences and budgets, and tolerances for cleanup time and prep time. Your mileage may vary.

    I’ve found that it takes 7 large, peeled oranges to make 1 liter of orange juice, so that’s going to be my “breakfast” juice for the remainder of my juice feast. I bag of 14 oranges is $8, so that’s not too bad. I’m having all the spinach, celery, carrots, and kale, that’s all fine, but I spread that out among the other 3 to 4 liters rather than having one ultra green-heavy drink. The fruits balance out the taste of the greens, but my orange juice is just straight oranges. I also have to say that these juices taste a lot better than the "fresh but frozen" juices I had delivered to me back in 2019.

    I’m going somewhat heavy on the apples, since upstate New York is a massive producer of apples and I can get a wide variety of high-quality apples for cheap. Also I just like apple juice. A nice thing about my juicer is that you can just throw in the entire apple with no prep work aside from rinsing it. I also add in some ginger and a portion of the greens / celery for the day. The juicer that I have has a 1 liter container that you can pour into bottles with a funnel, or into your glass. For the days when I have to go to the office in person, I’ll make most of my juice the night before and keep it in the fridge, and I will make my post-work juice totally fresh. It keeps for 24 hours before losing the nutrients, so this should be fine.

    I’m also doing things like strawberry and pineapple, and drinks with grapes and pears. When you mix a few different types of apples together (and a few carrots,) the flavor is better and more interesting than just using one type of apple.

    So far I don’t feel any different, in terms of my symptoms. I’m not sure if it’s something where I’m supposed to feel better during the feast, or if it only happens afterwards.

    When I feel hungry, I drink some juice. It gets rid of the hunger, but I never feel satisfied like I do from food. In 2019, I was extremely hungry by day 2 or 3, and the juices did not taste good. By day 6 and 7, I was fantasizing about food like never before, elaborately planning out what I was going to eat when I was done, and buying several cookbooks. I think this time around I’ll still be looking forward to eating food again, but I won’t be as hungry because I’m definitely getting more calories now. I’m not sure if I’ll do 10 days, or 14 days, or 21 days, or what. I’m leaning towards 14 days right now.

    If this doesn’t give me any noticable results (which would be unexpected,) then probably a month or two afterwards I’ll do a water fast. Water fasting for a week or a few weeks shuts down your testosterone and HTPA to a large extent, and then when you start eating again, there’s a massive spike upwards that can leave you higher than when you started (if you were under-producing previously.) And then also, the receptors are primed and ready for the t-boosting herbs and workouts. This is a way smarter and healthier way to do it compared to taking drugs like clomid, which can give you side effects and unbalance your hormones. Also, clomid can permanently give you eye floaters, or permanently worsen your existing eye floaters.

    I’m not sure how the juice feast works, in terms of what I can expect from it. I don’t know if it’ll give me a testosterone surge or a much stronger sensitivity to the herbs when I’m finished, but that’s what I’m hoping for. We’ll see how it goes.

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