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Thread: Def's Journey

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    SwoleSource Member Feedback Score 0 DefRecover's Avatar
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    Def's Journey

    Hey All

    Long time lurker, first time poster.

    Long story short, I took finasteride (1.25mg) for about 13 years (2003 - 2016). I basically had no side effects for the first 10 years, but noticed my libido slowly starting to wane thereafter. It got to the point in 2016 where I had to use viagra every time for sex and then even started to struggle masturbating.

    My worst symptoms are zero libido, ED without viagra (thankfully works), weak urine stream, post urination dribble (f*cking annoying), gut sensitivity, poor sleep, really cold fingers and toes, and dry skin. I only realised some of these symptoms could be caused by PFS after finding other (less helpful) websites. Strangely I do seem to get morning erections now and then - particularly if I sleep really poorly after drinking a lot (so the plumbing clearly does work). Thankfully I seem to have avoided most of the severe mental symptoms that many people have suffered - perhaps a little emotional flatness, difficult concentrating, and of course the poor sleep.

    Since I quit finasteride cold turkey in 2016, I have tried to eat clean, work out regularly, get good sleep and avoid drinking where I can. I have seen all the doctors (urologist, endocrinologist, sleep, GP, etc) and a naturopath - the latter by far the most helpful. Also had pretty much every blood, urine, stool, and food intolerance test done. While my sex hormones are generally fine (estrogen was initially a little high), the key findings are that I was producing too much cortisol overnight, have a dairy intolerance (out of nowhere) and have small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO). However, I haven't made any progress to speak of - and I know that is because I have just been a bit half assed about all of this.

    I have read all of Total Male Optimisation and much of this site, and I get it - jump on the protocol and get on with it. I do have one question, however:

    If I have SIBO, is it still ok for me to do a juice feast? I have been told that fruit and vegetable sugars can make SIBO worse. However, if I am just ingesting juices, I would have thought that they would move through my system too quickly to cause any real issues.

    Overall, I have an innate sense that if I can get deep sleep, fix my gut, and then continue to avoid the booze, eat well and stay fit, I should be ok. However, really interested to hear the thoughts of the experts here. Also really grateful to have found such a positive place to help try and get myself back to baseline and hopefully well beyond.

    Thanks in advance and apologies for the long read,

    Def

  2. #2
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DefRecover View Post
    Hey All

    Long time lurker, first time poster.

    Long story short, I took finasteride (1.25mg) for about 13 years (2003 - 2016). I basically had no side effects for the first 10 years, but noticed my libido slowly starting to wane thereafter. It got to the point in 2016 where I had to use viagra every time for sex and then even started to struggle masturbating.

    My worst symptoms are zero libido, ED without viagra (thankfully works), weak urine stream, post urination dribble (f*cking annoying), gut sensitivity, poor sleep, really cold fingers and toes, and dry skin. I only realised some of these symptoms could be caused by PFS after finding other (less helpful) websites. Strangely I do seem to get morning erections now and then - particularly if I sleep really poorly after drinking a lot (so the plumbing clearly does work). Thankfully I seem to have avoided most of the severe mental symptoms that many people have suffered - perhaps a little emotional flatness, difficult concentrating, and of course the poor sleep.

    Since I quit finasteride cold turkey in 2016, I have tried to eat clean, work out regularly, get good sleep and avoid drinking where I can. I have seen all the doctors (urologist, endocrinologist, sleep, GP, etc) and a naturopath - the latter by far the most helpful. Also had pretty much every blood, urine, stool, and food intolerance test done. While my sex hormones are generally fine (estrogen was initially a little high), the key findings are that I was producing too much cortisol overnight, have a dairy intolerance (out of nowhere) and have small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO). However, I haven't made any progress to speak of - and I know that is because I have just been a bit half assed about all of this.

    I have read all of Total Male Optimisation and much of this site, and I get it - jump on the protocol and get on with it. I do have one question, however:

    If I have SIBO, is it still ok for me to do a juice feast? I have been told that fruit and vegetable sugars can make SIBO worse. However, if I am just ingesting juices, I would have thought that they would move through my system too quickly to cause any real issues.

    Overall, I have an innate sense that if I can get deep sleep, fix my gut, and then continue to avoid the booze, eat well and stay fit, I should be ok. However, really interested to hear the thoughts of the experts here. Also really grateful to have found such a positive place to help try and get myself back to baseline and hopefully well beyond.

    Thanks in advance and apologies for the long read,

    Def
    Welcome.

    First off, don't try.......DO.

    The juice feast would be beneficial to your gut. You may have a small flair in the beginning but by the end of the second week it will be much, much better if not completely gone. During the juice feast add in some probiotics. That should speed things along. These types of secondary issues really respond well to a water fast, but that just isn't an easy possibility for most.

    The rest is self explanatory. That being said, use this forum for all of your questions.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  3. #3
    SwoleSource Member Feedback Score 0 DefRecover's Avatar
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    Thanks for the welcome and advice, CD!

    Looking forward to starting this juice feast as soon as my home is free of my holidaying, Irish, boozing, in-laws to be once they return to Dublin!

    Cheer

    Def

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    SwoleSource Member Feedback Score 0 DefRecover's Avatar
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    Juice cleanse question

    Hi All

    A question about the juice cleanse. I work in a professional services firm and am pretty time poor (out the door by 7am and never back before 8pm at the earliest). That being the case, I was planning to "outsource" most of my juice production. Thankfully, I have an organic, cold pressed, high quality juice place around the corner that offers a range of juice cleanses.

    Could those in the know here let me know whether the daily menu below is acceptable? I have confirmed with the company that these are all in fact "juices" (no pulp, solids, fibres, etc) - however, I am concerned that the "Vanilla Sky" with almond milk, date juice, vanilla etc may be cheating? If so, I might try and substitute this out for something else. I also plan to supplement with my own home made juices as the quantities look pretty low. I think these juice cleanses are probably designed for people that want to lose weight - though I am already 6'2", 165lbs, and pretty ripped so ideally don't want to lose any (I know I will).

    Thanks again,

    Def
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________

    Daily Menu

    Each day of cleansing contains a total of 6 x 500ml juices

    1 x Pocket Rocket
    Filtered Water, Lemon, Maple, Cayenne-Pepper

    1 x Evergreen
    Pineapple, Orange, Spinach, Cucumber, Watercress, Cos, Turmeric, Chia, Chlorophyll

    1 x The Hulk
    Capsicum, Kale, Cos, Spinach, Cucumber, Green Apple, Lemon

    1 x The Gapple
    Green Apple, Celery, Ginger, Lemon

    1 x Popeye
    Kale, Spinach, Cos, Celery, Cucumber, Parsley, Lemon

    1 x Vanilla Sky
    Filtered Water, Almonds, Dates, Manuka Honey, Vanilla Bean

    Nutritional Info (Per Day)
    Energy: 3,580kJ
    Protein: 33g
    Fat Total: 26g
    Ė Saturated: 3.6g
    Carbohydrates: 99g
    Sugars: 108g
    Sodium: 665mg

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    SwoleSource Member Feedback Score 0 DefRecover's Avatar
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    Calling all gut experts

    It's quiet around here at the moment!...

    Question - do we have any gut experts in our midst? My juice feast is rapidly approaching and I want to know what type of probiotic I should be taking per CD's advice. I have had a comprehensive stool test done and, while I am free of any parasites, it did show that I have off the charts levels of Enterobacter (normal gut bacteria) as well as some moderately increased levels of Pseudomonas and Klebsiella (opportunistic gut bacteria) and of course high levels of secretary IgA as a result of all the inflammation.

    Someone like Chi would have been perfect to answer this...

    Cheers

    Def

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    SwoleSource Member Feedback Score 0 DefRecover's Avatar
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    Bueller?...

  7. #7
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    Iím afraid youíre unlikely to find much expertise on gut health here, as weíre quite a small community. There are other forums out there more suited to discussing these issues. I would think, though, that if you have excessive levels of normal gut bacteria, a pro/prebiotic is the last thing you need.

    To be honest, although my experience has caused me to radically revise my attitude towards alternative health practices, Iím still quite skeptical of stool analysis and this focus on the minutiae of gut flora - in my opinion, this particular brand of naturopathy is incredibly arcane and esoteric, it has the reek of medical authoritarianism we often find with mainstream medical practitioners about it, and people often end up paying big money for tests and appointments with naturopaths who drip-feed technical terms to their patients but largely keep them in the dark about the rhyme or reason of their treatment plan.

    See if your digestive issues donít resolve with a paleo diet - chances are, if you are still eating highly-irritating grains and legumes (you may also be nightshade-sensitive), theyíre the cause of most of your digestive issues. Fruit sugars may not be your biggest concern - bacteria love to feed on starches, which most modern westernised diets are disproportionately high in. Additionally, you could try a daily Ray Peat-style grated carrot salad with coconut oil dressing, which with regular use may reduce the bacterial overgrowth somewhat and help your gut microbiome regulate itself.

    Regarding the juices available at your nearby juice bar, Iíd be slightly leery of the cayenne pepper as capsaicin is a digestive irritant which may hinder your progress (one of the benefits of the juice cleanse is that it enforces a diet thatís totally free of all common intestinal irritants), as well as the chia seeds as I donít see how you could juice those, so they probably end up in your drink blended, but still as solids. Same with the turmeric if itís a powder, rather than the actual root. With regard to almond milk, nuts are common allergens, so it may not be ideal, and most commercial almond milks are actually a freakish blend of plant starch, emulsifiers, and little actual almond, but if you can confirm that itís 100% almonds and nothing else, it could be all right.

    Iím sorry if my advice seems overly harsh or puritanical, but itís just my 2 cents so feel free to take it with a pinch of salt.
    Last edited by Marquis; 05-21-2019 at 04:04 AM.

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    Oh and a heads up, my digestion was all kinds of weird during the juice feast, but it was back to normal as soon as I started eating solid foods again.

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    SwoleSource Member Feedback Score 0 DefRecover's Avatar
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    Marquis

    Thanks for the thoughtful advice. I think I might hold off on the probiotics for now. I think I will also substitute the almond ďjuiceĒ out as well.

    My gut has been all over the shop the last couple of years and I just cannot figure out what is causing the issues. Here is hoping a good juice feast and going paleo will help reduce the inflammation and issues.

    Cheers

    Def

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    You're welcome, good luck on your cleanse!

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