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  1. #41
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    Just to jump of the back off what T25 said I had the majority of the same symptoms you speak of minus the brain fog but physically I was severely messed up especially muscle wise as it felt like I'd been deflated like someone popped a balloon and the air or muscle in this case had just gradually shrunk to nothing.

    After my waterfast and jumping on board the protocol within 4 months I'd say I recovered muscle wise like 40 to 50 percent through being super consistent and bare in mind 5 months before I just couldn't see any way back. The changes are also so subtle you don't realise them sometimes and you can take them for granted. For example when I crashed whenever I Sat on the floor or Hard surface I could feel my bones and joints on the floor and it was super uncomfortable and painful and then a few months on the protocol and it felt normal. This was something I only really realised recently as I've crashed myself and minus the initial anxiety and depression I'm pretty much back to where I was physically unfortunately but I am a lot calmer now then at the beginning because I have literally seen and felt the improvements.

    Just gotta put in the work

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    1. Yes, skin was/is messed up. A lot of changes in skin, muscle, eyes, and veins. But my veins were opposite than yours where all the sudden they all bulged out of my body, especially in my head. Also varicose veins. I don’t really want to go into specifics because that isn’t what this forum is about.

    2. Yes, it was recent, after suffering nearly 2 years. This shit takes time. I didn’t improve much until my 2nd pro hormone cycle, where I no longer felt like I was 80 years old with dementia, walking through life feeing my way around like a blind man. I was neurologically destroyed, it’s improved slow, I’ve been doing the protocol for over a year. I basically did the protocol for all that time, with 0 improvement wondering if I’m fucked forever, then improvement began randomly. I also felt way worse during and after my water fast and juice feast. Kept trucking anyways.

    3. I didn’t have 1 crash, I had multiple. I had I my initial one, where I took fin, sat back down to watch tv, then maybe an hour later noticed my vision looked like I was underwater, I had derealization, colors were extremely vivid and I felt like I was in a dream. Then came the massive panick attack that sealed my fate because some idiot from propeciahelp wrote a legit article about how fin destroyed his life and how he sees the world through a “thick fog”, I truly believe that article helped in my demise by putting my body through an obscene amount of stress, could have probably saved myself a lot of derealization and trouble without people like that. But then I had smaller crashes in the months following, I’d get “the flu” randomly then after it was gone I’d have more symptoms that just started. They’re all documented in my thread. My crash lasted a long time. If I hadn’t started the protocol, I would have been slowly deteriorating.

    I eat veggies (squash, asparagus, avocado, onion, garlic, spinach), nuts (pistachios), meat (ground turkey, chicken breast, eggs), fruit (apples, bananas, grapes, blue/strawberries, raspberries, kiwi, pears), high quality olive oil and that’s it. Sometimes cheat meals if I go out somewhere, like nachos. My backloads, or when I eat carbs are dates and potatoes only. Usually for meals I’ll just cook some chicken or turkey and sauté the vegetables along with it in a frying pan. Easy. Hard boiled eggs are easy too. I also drink this tea I make while boiling lemon, cinnamon and ginger root to fight inflammation. I work full time, so my daily routine is wake up for work, cold shower, work, gym, then cook dinner and cook lunch for the next day at work. I eat the same stuff everyday and don’t ever get cravings, because Med-jool dates are basically candy and have so much natural sugar that they destroy any artificial sugar craving I get. I never want ice cream candy or any of it.

    But it sounds like you’re just looking for reassurance man, which you shouldn’t be. That’s an endless cycle and your mind is tricking you. Reading your story or how you describe things it doesn’t seem all too crazy to me after everything I’ve been through. I promise, there are guys here who are just as bad as you, just do the things that you’ve seen done time and time again to heal, and you will. I don’t say this to be a dick, but usually when you post, you say something like “I took 1 pill X amount of time ago, and my whole body shut down blah blah” but the X amount of time keeps increasing, and it won’t stop increasing until you really buckle down and do what you need to. I’m not saying you’re not doing that, I would just say the same to anyone. I’ve never been too concerned with people’s symptoms, crashes, any of it, that’s why I’m here on this forum and once I’m healed I’ll probably be done with all of it. You can heal, no more symptom comparing just go out and kick this things ass. I say this because I care about you and the pfs community, and if I’ve improved anyone can.
    Thanks for the detailed response man. Very helpful and much appreciated.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comewhatmay View Post
    Just to jump of the back off what T25 said I had the majority of the same symptoms you speak of minus the brain fog but physically I was severely messed up especially muscle wise as it felt like I'd been deflated like someone popped a balloon and the air or muscle in this case had just gradually shrunk to nothing.

    After my waterfast and jumping on board the protocol within 4 months I'd say I recovered muscle wise like 40 to 50 percent through being super consistent and bare in mind 5 months before I just couldn't see any way back. The changes are also so subtle you don't realise them sometimes and you can take them for granted. For example when I crashed whenever I Sat on the floor or Hard surface I could feel my bones and joints on the floor and it was super uncomfortable and painful and then a few months on the protocol and it felt normal. This was something I only really realised recently as I've crashed myself and minus the initial anxiety and depression I'm pretty much back to where I was physically unfortunately but I am a lot calmer now then at the beginning because I have literally seen and felt the improvements.

    Just gotta put in the work
    I second this. Progress is so slow that you take it for granted. At times I don’t remember how bad it used to be until I hit a bad downswing and realize how far I’ve come.

    @DKnighten keep going bro, you’ll be fine

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    I second this. Progress is so slow that you take it for granted. At times I don’t remember how bad it used to be until I hit a bad downswing and realize how far I’ve come.

    @DKnighten keep going bro, you’ll be fine
    Nothing worse then a Downswing. You never think it’s going too End. Just keep Pushing BROTHER

  5. #45
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queens1984 View Post
    Nothing worse then a Downswing. You never think it’s going too End. Just keep Pushing BROTHER
    Starts getting exciting when downswings only stick around for a couple days.....then you know it's on the ropes.....
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    Starts getting exciting when downswings only stick around for a couple days.....then you know it's on the ropes.....
    Man I look forward too that. These downswings feel like they will never end. Thanks CD.

  7. #47
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    I second this. Progress is so slow that you take it for granted. At times I don’t remember how bad it used to be until I hit a bad downswing and realize how far I’ve come.

    @DKnighten keep going bro, you’ll be fine
    This is how it's going to be for MOST of the journey. You will occasionally have nice jumps in baseline towards the end, but the beginning is brutally slow. This is what deters alot of guys and makes some assume that it "didn't work." Regardless, it's still the best and only option that will eventually bring back your health.

    This is also the exact reason I tell guys to stay on the protocol for an additional six months even after they feel they've recovered. Because of this natural oscillation.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  8. #48
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    I'm going to run my first prohormone cycle. Is the R-Andro cream from IML fine to run by itself? This was recommended by Joe, as it does not have epiandrosterone which antagonizes GABA further.

  9. #49
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    Have you done everything in the protocol for a few months firstly?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOPE View Post
    Have you done everything in the protocol for a few months firstly?
    Been following the protocol probably 75% for over a year now with zero benefit.

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