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Thread: Pumpkin Seeds?

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    Pumpkin Seeds?

    Has anyone had issues with pumpkin seeds? I was doing pretty well for quite some time and then suddenly started to feel really crappy again for the last couple months - muscle and joint soreness, extreme fatigue and weakness, brain fog, vision issues, gut issues, etc. I assumed it was just a downswing but it just kept getting worse. I could not for the life of me figure out what was wrong. For some reason I was Googling pumpkin seeds today and it appears they are a pretty serious 5AR inhibitor - they are actually recommended as a natural cure for BPH. I have been eating a couple handfuls a day of pumpkin seeds for the last two months since they were recommended as a testosterone booster - WTF?. Don't know if it's just a coincidence. Anyone else have any good or bad experiences with them?

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    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Durantia37's Avatar
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    Yeah I've always heard they're a 5-ARI. I'd drop them immediately.

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    Avoid pumpkin seeds. For a better choice, replace them with a small handful of walnuts per day. Walnuts are very healthy (in moderation), and they don’t suppress 5ar.

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    Yeah - Done. Just hoping I bounce back - Fin messed me up good after only two weeks.

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    I'd like to hear more opinions on this.
    So many foods contain natural 5 ar reductase, I feel like we'd drive ourselves crazy trying to avoid them all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benq123 View Post
    I'd like to hear more opinions on this.
    So many foods contain natural 5 ar reductase, I feel like we'd drive ourselves crazy trying to avoid them all.
    Far too many to realistically avoid. I think it's best not to stress about most of them as they tend to be very mild and don't seem to prevent people's recoveries here, and as some of them are very healthful foods (eg. coconut oil) the trade-off is probably worth it. The main significant ones I'd heard of that seem to be worth taking the trouble to avoid are fenugreek, soy products, reishi mushroom, rosemary oil (concentrated essential OIL used as a supplement or topical - don't worry about avoiding the herb), nettle root and obviously saw palmetto. These are things you're unlikely to be consuming in any significant quantities on a paleo diet anyway. If you hear of a certain foodstuff or herb outside of the protocol increasing testosterone, it's worth doing a little research, as sometimes the mechanism of raising testosterone is by inhibiting its conversion to DHT via 5-ar - this is the case with nettle root.
    Last edited by Marquis; 06-28-2019 at 02:18 AM.

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    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Bankai9000's Avatar
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    From my understanding is that 5ar inhibs are neccessary for our recoveries. As most foods contains some 5ar inhibitors, like Marquis said they give us more positive than negatives. It helps our bodies bounce back a little more so long the dose is weak. I thought that that's a lot of the herb protocol is about. Adaptogens to help us get our receptors back, raise test & lower estrogen naturally and do 1-2 (weak) 5ar hits a week so we get better and better.
    That's why rotating absolutely anything on PFS seems to be crucial. Our bodies are "weak" and throwing to much of anything at it seems to make us unbalanced(or dependent on sth) way easier than a normal body. At least in the beginning.

    But y pumpkin seeds are literally sold as hairloss/prostate treatment. 1x a week probably better then noone, but daily might lead to issues.

    I still wonder about nettle root tho, most of our symptoms get treated by it when it comes to general health concerns(in a healthy body). Doesn't it act different than saw palmetto or so?(Haven't read much into specific differences yet). Wouldn't cycling it like Lion's mane(or other mushrooms) have some benefits? Or is it too potent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bankai9000 View Post
    From my understanding is that 5ar inhibs are neccessary for our recoveries. As most foods contains some 5ar inhibitors, like Marquis said they give us more positive than negatives. It helps our bodies bounce back a little more so long the dose is weak. I thought that that's a lot of the herb protocol is about. Adaptogens to help us get our receptors back, raise test & lower estrogen naturally and do 1-2 (weak) 5ar hits a week so we get better and better.
    That's why rotating absolutely anything on PFS seems to be crucial. Our bodies are "weak" and throwing to much of anything at it seems to make us unbalanced(or dependent on sth) way easier than a normal body. At least in the beginning.

    But y pumpkin seeds are literally sold as hairloss/prostate treatment. 1x a week probably better then noone, but daily might lead to issues.

    I still wonder about nettle root tho, most of our symptoms get treated by it when it comes to general health concerns(in a healthy body). Doesn't it act different than saw palmetto or so?(Haven't read much into specific differences yet). Wouldn't cycling it like Lion's mane(or other mushrooms) have some benefits? Or is it too potent?
    If you look at chi's post in the recovery section, sounds like he had nettle leaf tea pretty much daily, not sure if that's the same as root though..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marquis View Post
    Far too many to realistically avoid. I think it's best not to stress about most of them as they tend to be very mild and don't seem to prevent people's recoveries here, and as some of them are very healthful foods (eg. coconut oil) the trade-off is probably worth it. The main significant ones I'd heard of that seem to be worth taking the trouble to avoid are fenugreek, soy products, reishi mushroom, rosemary oil (concentrated essential OIL used as a supplement or topical - don't worry about avoiding the herb), nettle root and obviously saw palmetto. These are things you're unlikely to be consuming in any significant quantities on a paleo diet anyway. If you hear of a certain foodstuff or herb outside of the protocol increasing testosterone, it's worth doing a little research, as sometimes the mechanism of raising testosterone is by inhibiting its conversion to DHT via 5-ar - this is the case with nettle root.
    I agree - many extremely healthy foods, minerals and herbs do. I would consider adding pumpkin seeds to your avoid list though - I found double blind placebo controlled studies where pumpkin seed oil has been proven to shrink prostates and grow back hair. May not have the same effect when eaten in its whole food form - many don't - but I will be passing on this one. I will see if I improve off of them and let you guys know. Thanks.
    Last edited by Who Dat; 06-28-2019 at 07:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bankai9000 View Post
    From my understanding is that 5ar inhibs are neccessary for our recoveries. As most foods contains some 5ar inhibitors, like Marquis said they give us more positive than negatives. It helps our bodies bounce back a little more so long the dose is weak. I thought that that's a lot of the herb protocol is about. Adaptogens to help us get our receptors back, raise test & lower estrogen naturally and do 1-2 (weak) 5ar hits a week so we get better and better.
    That's why rotating absolutely anything on PFS seems to be crucial. Our bodies are "weak" and throwing to much of anything at it seems to make us unbalanced(or dependent on sth) way easier than a normal body. At least in the beginning.

    But y pumpkin seeds are literally sold as hairloss/prostate treatment. 1x a week probably better then noone, but daily might lead to issues.

    I still wonder about nettle root tho, most of our symptoms get treated by it when it comes to general health concerns(in a healthy body). Doesn't it act different than saw palmetto or so?(Haven't read much into specific differences yet). Wouldn't cycling it like Lion's mane(or other mushrooms) have some benefits? Or is it too potent?
    Did you write that 5ar inhibitors are necessary for recovery? If so, that's not the case......at all.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

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