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  1. #21
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 xxaleksi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk Smash View Post
    Maxout answered your question about how long the herbs must be taken for.

    Further perspective is that whether or not it were a prop, there isn't much choice anyway.
    Also consider that everyone's recovery journey is ultimately the unique path said man will carve out for himself. In other words, every mans discipline level is different and that level of discipline is what makes the difference not only in recovery but also life in general.

    Do not base your path on the results of others. Remember that your mind, body and soul are unique. Yes you crashed like every man who took fin has BUT what each man rebuilds himself to is in no way equal.
    No way every man who takes fin crashes. IIRC there have been over a million prescriptions for fin in the US alone just last year. If a large portion of those guys crashed then PFS would be more known. Propeciahelp has like 5,000 members total in the last decade. This condition is probably extremely rare. Certainly doesn't feel that way when it happens to you, though.

    I actually have a friend who takes Dut for his hair loss and has no side effects whatsoever. Libido fine, mentally fine, literally feels like taking a vitamin to him. Meanwhile I got fucked over by a few pills of fin and a year later I'm still not completely normal lol. He used fin before too and when I explained to him what happened to me he couldn't understand it since to him it's just another pill that just helps his hair.

    I'm extremely thankful to CD and everyone else here on this forum for helping guys like me to get through this. Although I'm not recovered yet I have a new appreciation for life and don't take my health for granted anymore. Imagine if the protocol didn't exist and all we had was PH when we crashed? I can't even imagine.

  2. #22
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxaleksi View Post
    No way every man who takes fin crashes. IIRC there have been over a million prescriptions for fin in the US alone just last year. If a large portion of those guys crashed then PFS would be more known. Propeciahelp has like 5,000 members total in the last decade. This condition is probably extremely rare. Certainly doesn't feel that way when it happens to you, though.

    I actually have a friend who takes Dut for his hair loss and has no side effects whatsoever. Libido fine, mentally fine, literally feels like taking a vitamin to him. Meanwhile I got fucked over by a few pills of fin and a year later I'm still not completely normal lol. He used fin before too and when I explained to him what happened to me he couldn't understand it since to him it's just another pill that just helps his hair.

    I'm extremely thankful to CD and everyone else here on this forum for helping guys like me to get through this. Although I'm not recovered yet I have a new appreciation for life and don't take my health for granted anymore. Imagine if the protocol didn't exist and all we had was PH when we crashed? I can't even imagine.
    It was brutal. No hope, no other avenues of escape. Things were very dark. Gratitude has a way of bringing more good things into your life, which is why I always tell the new guys to be thankful they have this option. That being said I have to stop getting attached to the outcome of these guys here because when they stray, and don't do the right things, it really hits a nerve in me for some reason. I know it shouldn't, but it does.

    There was a guy who started out here after crashing and I know he is now going the TRT route after me talking to him until I was blue in the face. Like, what's the point of all that time and effort? Nothing. TRT is not the answer to this, we know it, everyone else knows it, but he thinks he's going to be different for some reason.

    I'm glad your thankful. I'm thankful to the guys that stick to the program and recover. You'll be one of them if you continue on the correct path.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    It was brutal. No hope, no other avenues of escape. Things were very dark. Gratitude has a way of bringing more good things into your life, which is why I always tell the new guys to be thankful they have this option. That being said I have to stop getting attached to the outcome of these guys here because when they stray, and don't do the right things, it really hits a nerve in me for some reason. I know it shouldn't, but it does.

    There was a guy who started out here after crashing and I know he is now going the TRT route after me talking to him until I was blue in the face. Like, what's the point of all that time and effort? Nothing. TRT is not the answer to this, we know it, everyone else knows it, but he thinks he's going to be different for some reason.

    I'm glad your thankful. I'm thankful to the guys that stick to the program and recover. You'll be one of them if you continue on the correct path.
    Herbs arrived last night.

    In rotation, I have MACA, Ash, Tongkat, He Shou Wu, Shilijat (I hate the smell of this shit), schisandra, black ant, and cistanche. I also have access to rhoidiola, Eleuthero, and cordyceps tinctures at a high quality market where I live, so I’ll probably throw those in while I try and accumulate more. Pine pollen daily. These all seem to be the more androgenic herbs, so does anybody see any imbalance with my cycle? More is better, but is this a good start? Also, I’m a major proponent of nutrient timing (and so are all of you backloaders) any advice in terms of when to take these herbs?

    Also, @CD, I noticed your connections to Panama in various threads. I’m going on a fishing trip there next month, I can say hey to your fruit homies for you.

    Going to take a break from forum after today. All the best
    Last edited by Ratchet; 02-11-2020 at 09:34 AM.

  4. #24
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Bankai9000's Avatar
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    General advice seems to be to take herbs on an empty stomach with some water. I do it like half hour before eating since I don't eat for the first 2-6h in the morning.
    I like your attitude with not wanting to do this forever. That's why I never even considered hormones or anything drastic, the simple question "do i wanna do this forever?" would probably prevent a lot of people of doing that in the first place. Since once you start hormones or benzos and get a benefit from it, well then you're screwed. You can't heal cause you take toxic shit that imbalances you and bam you're stuck in an endless cycle.
    But same time I decided to do a lot of the health stuff forever, like Ice baths, Sauna, HIIT, Stretches, Healthy diet and habits etc., not always fun but now it's always there^^ And once you bought the herbs and they arrive you will notice they literally last forever XD. I rotated like xxaleksi every herb aswell so there just seems no end to it. Especially if you take a break here and there.


    To the statement every man crashes on fin, just lol dude. Almost nobody crashes on Fin, it's similar to people dying on a dose of viagra or people bleeding out from an aspirin pill.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    It was brutal. No hope, no other avenues of escape. Things were very dark. Gratitude has a way of bringing more good things into your life, which is why I always tell the new guys to be thankful they have this option. That being said I have to stop getting attached to the outcome of these guys here because when they stray, and don't do the right things, it really hits a nerve in me for some reason. I know it shouldn't, but it does.

    There was a guy who started out here after crashing and I know he is now going the TRT route after me talking to him until I was blue in the face. Like, what's the point of all that time and effort? Nothing. TRT is not the answer to this, we know it, everyone else knows it, but he thinks he's going to be different for some reason.

    I'm glad your thankful. I'm thankful to the guys that stick to the program and recover. You'll be one of them if you continue on the correct path.

    When you say stray, you mean drastic changes right? For example, I binned chlorella and spirulina because after multiple attempts, they just do me more harm than good. So I supplement magnesium, Vit D3 and Vit B complex and get nutrients from food. So I’m following the protocol to the best my body will allow, would you consider that straying?

    Also, any tips or advice for vitamin supplementation for those who can’t take chlorella/spirulina?

  6. #26
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    When you say stray, you mean drastic changes right? For example, I binned chlorella and spirulina because after multiple attempts, they just do me more harm than good. So I supplement magnesium, Vit D3 and Vit B complex and get nutrients from food. So I’m following the protocol to the best my body will allow, would you consider that straying?

    Also, any tips or advice for vitamin supplementation for those who can’t take chlorella/spirulina?
    No, I mean straying in regards to doing only half or less of the protocol and/or jumping through different protocols too quickly and not giving themselves the proper time under the right conditions.

    What you did was not straying, rather taking out something that doesn't work for you. These two things aren't going to make or break your recovery.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  7. #27
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Hulk Smash's Avatar
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    @xxalexi @bankai

    Are the two of you seriously repeating the very statement that probably help land you here?

    Not only is it unscientific but it's also almost malicious. I bet neither one of you could give a scientific reasoning as to why you state "almost no one crashes". Other than perhaps the drug trials and claims made by the very drug manufacturer.

    Many pharma inhibitors are known to crash people, such as PPI'S.
    It's a pattern in the industry.

    No one is superman, we all respond the same way to everything at varying degrees.

    (Except in the case of allergic reactions which are most likely caused by pharma or natural trauma to the immune system. But the pathology or trigger of the birth of an allergy seems to be similar if not the same for everyone.)

    An example of a response at varying degrees per individual would be anesthesia. The response depends on weight and other factors but Ultimately everyone succumbs to the anesthesia.
    There are many other examples.

    We are all subject for better or worse to the laws of nature hence why you can't not recover by following the protocol.

    I humbley warn you against repeating the lie of "barely anyone crashes".
    You could be pushing someone into the pit you fell in.

    There are people who search forums to decide if they should try fin,dut,sp. They want to know if the odds are in their favor and clearly they're not since the two of you who crashed probably believed the lie too.

    Xxalexi, you should be encouraging your friend to get on some protocol as a preventive measure.

    I hope he doesn't crash but using the word hope makes it clear your friend is playing with fire and you know what they say about fire...

  8. #28
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    Wise words brother well done!

    Its sad reading such things here.
    The numbers are fake. Its like playing russian roulette with your health.

  9. #29
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    Quick check in with everyone.

    I hope you’re all having as good a week/end as I am.

    I started the herbs last Tuesday. 1/2 tbsp pine pollen powder in morning and late afternoon everyday. Does anybody cycle this? I took cistanche, he Shou Wu, shilajit, Maca, and then Tongkat Ali today.

    First day sucked. Next day felt great. Third day sucked again. & then I’ve felt like my former self 100% these past few days. Popping stiffies left and right, had sex multiple times in one day, brain ball connection restored, and generally just better in every which way, especially when it comes to the mental sides. The wit and fluency of thought is all back.

    Noted: herbs seem to have better effect post-workout, especially pine pollen.

    Amazing upswing, don’t even want to give credence to a proceeding downswing, but I’m prepared for one. No plans to stray off protocol for a good while, either. Just wanted to add another anecdote by somebody who has not only seen the light, but felt it, for all you boys who haven’t felt like yourself in a long time. Keep going.

    All the best.

  10. #30
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 xxaleksi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk Smash View Post
    @xxalexi @bankai

    Are the two of you seriously repeating the very statement that probably help land you here?

    Not only is it unscientific but it's also almost malicious. I bet neither one of you could give a scientific reasoning as to why you state "almost no one crashes". Other than perhaps the drug trials and claims made by the very drug manufacturer.

    Many pharma inhibitors are known to crash people, such as PPI'S.
    It's a pattern in the industry.

    No one is superman, we all respond the same way to everything at varying degrees.

    (Except in the case of allergic reactions which are most likely caused by pharma or natural trauma to the immune system. But the pathology or trigger of the birth of an allergy seems to be similar if not the same for everyone.)

    An example of a response at varying degrees per individual would be anesthesia. The response depends on weight and other factors but Ultimately everyone succumbs to the anesthesia.
    There are many other examples.

    We are all subject for better or worse to the laws of nature hence why you can't not recover by following the protocol.

    I humbley warn you against repeating the lie of "barely anyone crashes".
    You could be pushing someone into the pit you fell in.

    There are people who search forums to decide if they should try fin,dut,sp. They want to know if the odds are in their favor and clearly they're not since the two of you who crashed probably believed the lie too.

    Xxalexi, you should be encouraging your friend to get on some protocol as a preventive measure.

    I hope he doesn't crash but using the word hope makes it clear your friend is playing with fire and you know what they say about fire...
    Wasn't trying to belittle the condition by any means. PFS is absolutely devastating, as everyone here knows. If that wasn't the case, I wouldn't have been posting here for the past eleven months.

    I meant that if every man who took fin crashed, PFS would be much more known and the drug most likely would've been pulled off the market. Millions of people have taken fin since it was FDA approved. Yet there (probably) aren't millions of people with PFS. Of course, this is just my opinion. I can't know for sure.

    Also, Maxout said in an old post that his father has taken Saw Palmetto for years with no issues whatsoever. Yet he got in trouble after taking it for a bit over a month. There has to be some kind of predisposition in us that makes us sensitive to Fin/SP/RU, along with SSRIs and Accutane. Obviously, until the predisposition is known these drugs should never be sold, but I don't see them being removed from the market until science figures out why PFS occurs. Until then, it's russian roulette with your health like Samsemilia said.

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