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  1. #101
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 xxaleksi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Got labs back from Dr. Mark Gordon. DHT skyrocketed using Andro Hard + Creatine 25g. 33ng/dL to 73ng/dL. T was mildly suppressed (we expected this) from 740ng/dL to 650ng/dL. Interestingly, T is preferring to shoot through Aromatase right now from the suppression causing pretty high E2 at 47ug/dL. It was at 33ug/dL before the cycle. HGH and IGF-1 are very low. Will have to get that up as insulin is suffering from it. Deficient glucose metabolism in cells is no bueno and tissue will not repair itself in a deficiency like that.
    Are you still doing 16 pumps per day? So 8 in the morning and 8 again in the afternoon? I'm doing four, twice daily. Wonder how much that increases dht...

  2. #102
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 DrivenToRecover's Avatar
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    25 Grams of creatine per day? holy cow. I have heard a lot of the worry about high doses being hard on kidneys be debunked, but damn thats a lot. What's the thinking behind taking it that high?
    Its only work until its routine

  3. #103
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    The discolouration may be post inflammatory hyper pigmentation or PI erythema. This type of pigmentation sometimes happens naturally when you get acne and have oily skin, since you've jut come off prohormone I'm guessing you had some acne, if its cleared up these marks may be the leftovers of that. I have some from when my spots were really bad.

    The best way to deal with hyper pigmentation is a goood quality face sunscreen and exfoliating. They go away with time. Erythema I'm not so sure, I think they go away naturally as well but it takes longer. Overall it's nothing to worry about.
    Last edited by The whit wagon; 07-07-2020 at 04:01 AM.

  4. #104
    SwoleSource Member Feedback Score 0 alphacfi's Avatar
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    I think this forum is pretty open to exploring additional healthy ideas that can help speed up recovery. I read your posts and you are obviously a very introspective guy and are on top of your own personal symptoms and health. No one is trying to say you can't explore outside the protocol. I think I have about 9 supplements that I take that are not directly on the protocol. All of them I got because of conversations I read on this forum. We don't need CD to baby sit. It's already all laid out and I think about 90% of the questions people direct toward him have been answered numerous times on here anyway.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Calling it quits with this forum for awhile. Maybe indefinitely. CD ditched and left guys hanging who ordered product, indicating things here are dead anyways. Additionally, my off-forum dialogue with guys here who've been at it for some time indicates this all here just isn't the magic fix. Even worse, no one here is open minded to new ideas and jump down anyone's throats who so much question anything. If I wanted to be around that behavior, I'd be at Propecia Hell. I'm sorry that a lot of you here are still in a very miserable state and I sincerely wish you a speedy recovery. If anyone wants to find me, I'm in the WhatsApp group with the 70+ other guys who have joined. Best of luck!
    You gotta do what's best for you, man. As far as a magic fix, I don't think there is one. I've already told myself I won't be recovered for at least 5 years, I'm cool with that. I've also been here longer than you, and I'll be here for a while yet. You can go through my thread and see that I have came leaps and bounds from where I was. Good luck man and if you need some support I'll be here.

    As far as nobody trying different things, mega-dosing methylfolate with some co-factors such as methyl-b12 made my memory return. We're talking over 70,000 MCG of folate a day some days. I experiment all the time, I just use the protocol as my foundation. Not sure why you wouldn't it's just a healthy lifestyle honestly.
    Last edited by Turnover25; 07-23-2020 at 08:29 PM.

  6. #106
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Hey guys. It's been awhile. Just wanted to start by apologizing. I was not in a good place and I was getting frustrated with how much misery I was in and how everyone's claims on PFS and how to go about fixing it conflicted so drastically. And then everyone kept coming to me expecting answers out of me that I don't have or telling me how none of this works and it's all some grand conspiracy. It drove me nuts. I just wanted relief. Just gotta accept that we may never have the full understanding.

    How am I doing? I'm doing ok. I'm not fully recovered and still have issues. But I am improved since I was last here. I'm down to the following:

    -Feeling like a loose piece of rubber/wobbly
    -Brain fog
    -Confusion
    -Low libido
    -Low energy

    I'm not sure how to label this, so I'll just try to summarize it. If I try to sit and watch movies, I can't. I just cannot connect with anything I'm seeing on screen well. And if I see some kind of scene where the characters are high off the ground on buildings or the shot of a scene shows the view of a large city, it makes me anxious throughout my entire body and terrified. I never used to feel like that before PFS.

    In terms of what I'm doing now, I'm still doing some stuff from TMO. I get lots of sun, take vitamin D, eat clean, theanine, GABA, Bacopa, Gotu Kola, Glycine, etc. but I'm doing some other stuff as well. Just experimenting currently. Hope you all are well.
    I'm glad you're moving along. But know this.....Cherry picking different pieces from different strategies rarely works. You should commit to one, and ride it out to the end. IMO, there is nothing to experiment with. You simply need to follow what has been laid out for you here until the end. That is what THIS forum is for. We know it works, so there's not much to experiment with. This board is to help those dedicated to following TMO.

    I understand where you're coming from, but there is no need for you to get frustrated with any of that. Joe...I guarantee that if you went in 100% with TMO (which is the point of being here anyway) for six months, you would be in an even better place then your are now. I mean, full tilt TMO all the way. Read the recoveries for inspiration, often. There's no other place that I know of where you can do that aside from this forum.

    In regards to understanding why, or what, or how, what is more important to you....knowing these things, or recovering despite not really understanding why something works vs why something doesn't? Most people would say they just want to be done with all of this mess and recover so they can move on with their lives. You can do that. You can do that here. You just have to....well......do it!

    By the way I know that feeling you're describing about watching movies and not being able to connect. I fucking hated it. I couldn't even relax to watch a god damned movie. All of that can be left in the rear view man. You just gotta hit the accelerator. Pick a lane, stay in it, and floor the fucking thing. Done deal. Don't make it harder then it has to be.

    Oh, and btw, not only did I have that feeling watching movies, my LIFE felt like that. Everything was flat...no depth, no connection. My whole life felt like it was on a 2D movie screen and my life felt as if I was watching it from far, far away.

    It doesn't have to be. Just jump in man. Time to get it done.
    Last edited by Cdsnuts; 10-25-2020 at 06:49 PM.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  7. #107
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Yep. Sounds about right.

    Also, what I mean by experimenting is that I'm playing with some stuff for boosting neurotransmitters. Stuff scientifically studied and backed up as ways to boost specific types. I had mine tested a few days ago so I know which ones are deficient and to target. I'm using this guide to help me along with that:

    https://medium.com/publishous/fixing...s-72649aab40b1

    Additionally, we now know for certain that neurotransmitters are affected, as you guys have suspected here. Dr. Melcangi from Italy just published a study that found 5ARIs alter the microbiome of individuals. The gut bacteria produce 95% of the neurotransmitters in the body. They got wiped out.

    Alterations of gut microbiota composition in post-finasteride patients: a pilot study | SpringerLink

    Also, everyone has gotten the "low neurosteroids" study wrong. Or misinterpreted them, I should say. When they took CSF samples and found low Allopregnenolone and other 5ar metabolites, what everyone has missed is that there were also low levels of Progesterone and Pregnenolone. Pregnenolone is the mother hormone that makes all other hormones. If you have no pregnenolone, you have no hormones. Cholesterol is converted to pregnenolone via the CYP11A1 enzyme (aka P450scc). This enzyme was shut off by 5ARIs in the brain and CNS. Its not just low 5ar. It's everything. Lol

    The other thing I'm experimenting with is Phosphatidylcholine, which has been studied to heavily stimulate activity of that enzyme.

    JBC : Journal of Biological Chemistry

    Other than that stuff, I'm doing TMO. I'm on my androgen cycle currently (3 weeks in on a 8 week cycle) to restore proper androgen receptor sensitivity, eating clean, jogging, breathing, fasting, etc.
    Good deal. Please let us know how it works out for you.

    And yes, you are correct to a point. But at the root, the switching off of the 5ar enzyme is what starts the whole crashing process. The bitch of it is, that even though it starts with the "switching off" of the 5ar enzyme, things just don't go back to normal by switching it back on. The down stream effects of killing this enzyme create such havoc systemically, that you really have no choice but to treat the whole system holistically to get everything back online and bring the system back to a decent homeostasis.

    And Jogging? No bro.....HIIT! The jogging is just a waste of your time, imo.
    Last edited by Cdsnuts; 11-01-2020 at 02:10 PM.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  8. #108
    SwoleSource Member Feedback Score 0
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    Glad you’re seeing improvements! Are you doing anything else to boost androgen receptors so your androgens can be better utilized? Have you looked into pharmacy compounded L-Carnitine injections? Seems like a more powerful way to gain the AR benefits.

    Curious, how do you have your testosterone so high? Are you taking anything to raise it?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Sorry for the long wait. I haven't looked into that but my local Empower does have them and I have a kick ass doctor that will be open to pretty much any sort of rational experimentation. He knows what I've been through. And yes. I was on a stack of bioidentical Testosterone and low dose Andro Hard. The cycle ended yesterday. I'm going to have a one week withdrawal period and then we're going to see where my baseline is via labs. My testes are normal sized so I know I'm likely not shutdown. If all looks good we're going to go hard at restoring the 5ar type 1/Allopregnanolone pathway and fixing up more neurotransmitters we just had tested.
    Interesting, so you ran a PH cycle stacked with TRT. How did that workout for you? Do you see any downsides by optimizing hormones with bioidentical testosterone while recovering from PFS? It seems like it would be only of benefit by putting the body in that much better of a position to recover along with doing everything else right/protocol.

    I imagine protocol (healthy-ass-living) and fine-tuning of supplementation is the best way to raise those neurotransmitters.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Correct. T 200mg topical daily on chest + 6 pumps Andro Hard once daily applied to the genitals. It helped a bit and felt a bit better but it didn't solve all of the underlying problems. Mainly, I'm using these cycles to fix androgen receptors because, in spite of T and DHT being high, I did not feel them. It was of a mild effect that wasn't much to run home with. Something is up with my androgen receptors that needs to be fixed. Cycles accomplish that.

    Also, very correct on the neurotransmitters. I got my fat ass tested to see what was actually going on. I found my deficiencies and got the specific cocktail of supplements that target those issues. It was well worth it and I noticed very quickly the positive effects.
    Hey joe been following you for a while now and I admire your determination and spirit despite probably being a worse case the the rest of us so props for that

    What cocktail are you going to use if you don’t mind me asking?
    Im in a similar situation im also on TRT due to pre-Finastride hypogonadism and I haven’t been able to set a plan to tackle this issue yet

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