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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Here's something interesting. Been reading a little into the hormonal and neurosteroidal pathways. So, as has been observed and experimented with here before, 5a-DHP is a 5-alpha reduced metabolite of progesterone. It is also a precursor to multiple neurosteroids in the brain that act on the GABA-a receptors and, eventually, creates neural androgens itself. But there's another metabolite in the similar line of sequence but on a different chain as 5a-DHP that comes from 17OHP (17-hydroxyprogesterone) called, 5α-Pregnan-17α-ol-3,20-dione. It can also be a metabolite of 5a-DHP itself as well, oddly enough, but not in as great of numbers as being a direct metabolite of 17OHP. Both 5a-DHP and 5a-Pregnan make 17OH-Allopregnenolone, Androsterone, Androstanediol, and then DHT. 5a-DHP is solely responsible for Allopregnenolone production as a metabolite while 5a-pregnan contributes to 17OH-Allopregnanolone production, thus increasing production of Androsterone, Androstanediol, and DHT.

    Backdooor pathways of neurosteroids and sex hormones: PLOS Biology: The €œbackdoor pathway€ of androgen synthesis in human male sexual development

    Info on 5a-Pregnan: 5alpha-Pregnane-3,20-dione | C21H32O2 - PubChem

    However, all of these metabolites come from type 1 5-alpha reductase, whereas sufferers of finasteride damage should only have 5-alpha reductase type 2 (testosterone to DHT pathway) altered with long standing inhibited behavior, unless there is some unforeseen and unknown effect of Finasteride on type 1, directly or indirectly. Those who used Saw Palmetto would have an altered type 1 pathway (that pathway explained above via Progesterone to 5a-DHP and 17-OHP to 5α-Pregnan-17α-ol-3,20-dione). Those who used Dutasteride (like myself) would be suffering from both pathways (types 1 and 2) being altered.

    It seems my specific case stems more so on the type 1 pathway, as my type 2 conversion (main androgenic pathway where most serum DHT occurs) of T to DHT appears to be intact, based on labs, but neuro androgens and precursor neurosteroids are lacking, based on the mountain of neuro symptoms (type 1) vs physical symptoms (type 2). I see the public is able to get their hands on 5α-Pregnan-17α-ol-3,20-dione without restriction from the following sources:

    5alpha-Pregnan-21-ol-3,20-dione-2,2,4,4,17alpha,21,21-d7

    5-ol-3,20-dione, CAS 570-59-2 | SCBT - Santa Cruz Biotechnology

    (Note: this one is the most affordable so far) 5-ol-3,20-dione, CAS 570-59-2 | SCBT - Santa Cruz Biotechnology

    I'm going to reach out to IdeaLabs and see if they can synthesize 5a-Pregnan as well. It in combination with 5a-DHP could be an effective treatment for stimulating 5-alpha reductase again as a result of inhibition pattern behavior in the brain caused by Saw Palmetto and Dutasteride. Maybe Finasteride as well.

    For me, just as something interesting to note, anytime I use a GABA-a agonist, such as Ativan during the daytime and Ambien at nighttime, I feel loads more normal and myself. Calm throughout the day and able to sleep. When they wear off, then it's right back to PFS hell. This would obviously point more in the direction of a type 1 issue from the lack of GABA-a agonist metabolites. I'm thinking of experimenting with a cycle of pregnenolone 100mg x1 daily, 5a-DHP 5mg x2 daily (12hr), and 1mg 5a-pregnan x1 daily to start out. Thoughts?
    Forgive the typical PHelp post, but If i'm not mistaken, I believe a young guy ended up committing suicide after purchasing and injecting himself with some sort of enzyme he believed he would fix him. I have read that it made his condition much worse. I'd be careful.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Nah. This forum has played with 5a-DHP before with good results. Worst I've seen was it did nothing.

    5a-DHP [Archive] - Swole Source

    These aren't enzymes either. These are prohormones for neurosteroids and androgens that got blocked by the medication.
    Apologies. I read through the entire thread. That was really interesting. How did you pull the archive for that topic??

  3. #33
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    Sounds like you're doing really well which is good to hear.

    Just take things slowly, don't jump into Andro, give yourself 2-3 months cycling the herbs until the progress stabilises, and damn well make sure you're not running 5a-DHP. alongside the androhard.

    I would also say to split your herb dosage in morning and afternoon.

    L-dopa is a herb and you want to be cycling that rather than taking it with the tongkat on the same day, but it's entirely up to you.

    Other than that your routine is solid

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Thanks man! Yah, I wanted to jump the gun and do 5a-DHP with Andro Hard but I'm thinking it would cause too much E shutdown. My E is actually perfect, so I don't want that. Not to mention too much on the body at once. I'm here because of that reason so best not to add to it. It's a combo of eagerness to be normal again but also the pure thrill of solving a puzzle. I'm Dr. House by nature. Lol! The recommended cycle period to upregulate 5ar1 via 5a-DHP appears to be 3-4 months, so I guess I'd have to wait til June.

    Not currently taking Tongkat. I'll split the L-Dopa, Tribulus, and Ashwaganda up. All others are meant to be taken once, so I can't split without breaking capsules or it would keep me up at night, which would add to the insomnia issue. The recommended cycling for the herbs is 4 weeks, right?
    It's 2-3 months or even 6 months herb cyling. 4 weeks for pct

    I wish I waited longer to do my 1st cycle as I only waited around 2 and a half months before cycling and I don't think my body was ready which is why I had turbulence

    Saying that everyone is different, just my 2 cents.
    Last edited by Alchemy; 02-26-2020 at 01:08 PM.

  5. #35
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Hulk Smash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Well, guys, I have bad news. My mom does indeed have PFS now from taking a women's skin supplement that has saw palmetto in it. She's been in bed for days with derealization, depression, anxiety, low libido, weakness, and abdominal burning. Same way I got hit when it first started. We seem to be genetically predisposed from blocking 5ar1. I'm stressing about this because I'm here trying to fix myself and now I have to worry about her. And we don't have the money for 2 PFS sufferers. She knows what I've been through and knows that it can't be instantly fixed by any medication or doctor. God really must hate us for some reason. 😥
    Everyones genetically predisposed. The "polymorphism" study published in approximatley 2016 revealed that everyone is negatively impacted. The only difference gene variation makes is the timeframe and types of symptoms. I explained this using logic in another thread but the study does exist. I'll post the link when I have a chance.

    Try to help your mom atleast do whats afforable. Something is better than nothing.
    I know you can both make it to full recovery.

  6. #36
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 RickTheRuler's Avatar
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    Joe's Recovery Journal

    Thats fucking crazy man..wow.

    At least you know what has to be done, always look on the bright side. It couldve been 1997 when you guys got hit. Long before any recoveries.. imagine that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #37
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    I'm Sorry Joe.....that fucking sucks.

    I've never given this much thought when it comes to women....things will have to be tweaked a little bit obviously.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  8. #38
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    Sorry to hear about your mother that's terrible but the good news is you have all knowledge to help heal her. Some of the OTC supps can cause just as strong adverse reactions as the nefarious pharma drugs.

    What I notice is people get similar adverse reactions from all sorts of things, from birth control pills, acne medication, psychedelics, opiates, steroids, it's really a mine field when it comes to health since we have so much more knowledge at our fingertips the temptation to try and experiment with new things can sometimes lead to our own downfall which leads back to the saying of how curiosity killed the cat

    On another note, regards to your sleep, you might try wearing eye mask to block out all light to increase melatonin production naturally.

    I notice I don't sleep as deeply if I am not wearing my eye mask

  9. #39
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Bankai9000's Avatar
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    Just wanna add that I had/have this pain upon waking up aswell.
    After my crash not only couldn't I sleep anyway, but same time I was deeply scared to get more than 5h of sleep due to the extreme physical pain I had in my brain after waking up. It was by far the worst pain I've ever come close to.
    This pain shifted pretty fast into a "just" overall shit feeling upon waking up which I still have more often than not. I do although think I was pretty moody already pre pfs during the first hour, so there was prob something off and PFS just crashed all of these systems. It's really a pain in the ass, by now I can sleep better than ever during pfs, but still if I don't make sure that every night I get enough sleep I wake up REALLY shitty for the first 5-20minutes. It feels just like the worst hangover and then lifts and is gone. Kinda as if I don't get any oxygen for several hours or so idk lol and feels like a (futile) catchup game every day

    I have to have my room completely cut out of ANY light aswell. I noticed that even a small red dot from my tv is too much and I wake up several times a night. Slept for awhile in another room and when it got like 5% lighter outside I would wake up instantly aswell cuz of the outside. So I'd wake up and it would still be like 90% dark, but not dark enough for me to stay asleep LOL. Now my room is so dark that 2am or 2pm doesn't make ANY difference xd.

    Yesterday woke up several times during the night, kinda sweatin etc. I'm waaay past getting mad at these moments so it doesn't bother me much. But ye it's some imbalance and some messed up stress response to all of this.
    After every fast my sleep improves tremendously.

    It's your choice to trial all these things you're doing, but in your case I'd maybe read a lot more before just jumping into weird stuff. Especially on the pfs forums, gotta keep in mind that reactions happen and I'd watch out for those. Especially if you're still taking other stuff which impacts the brain man. I'd rather try to get off everything, repeat the whole fasting + diet for months before even thinking in the slightest about prohormones etc.

    The general route I see is that ppl pickpocket stuff, then get messed up.

  10. #40
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Bankai9000's Avatar
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    You got off the hormones if I got that right, but aren't you still takin that sleep stuff? Didn't you take it during the waterfast?

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