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  1. #421
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 JoeP26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
    Thank you for the insight man
    Thing is I canít really tell if my testes can be kickstarted again without trying, I jumped on TRT because low testosterone and I never used steroids before that and I actually felt amazing on TRT alone although in theory i had no allopregnanolone and it confuses me how the lack of allopreg is causing these issues when i felt great on TRT beforehand even with crushed allo if you know what i mean.

    Question is if i never had primary hypogonadism before using TRT and it was only a matter of low testosterone due to lifestyle choices is it possible that i can get my natural production to normal ranges even after two years on TRT? i know youíre not a doctor and im only asking for opinions.
    Your doctor should've never put you on TRT right away without trying other options first. TRT should always be the last resort because of the negatives it can cause. That was a grave error on his/her part. Sadly, not many are on the up and up with research and studies. Same way most of them aren't aware of PFS in spite of the mountain of studies already available.

    It's not the Allopregnanolone solely that's the problem. In PFS, it's different. It's receptors, neurosteroids, neurotransmitters, neuroendocrine non-sex hormones (acth, gh, igf-1, igfbp-3, prolactin, etc.), disrupted methylation cycles (possibly from the cholinergic system), amino acid production disruption, altered gut bacteria populations (responsible for a plethora of neurotransmitters), and so much more.

    With the Allopregnanolone, even though you went on TRT and suppressed Progesterone, some is still made in the brain at the tissue site from the P450 enzyme cascade that exists there. Enzymes that produce hormones are throughout the body constantly converting and making hormones. The brain, the skin, internal organs. Everything. The testes simply give you a major boost up on two hormones out of dozens of others for muscle/strength, reproductive, and performance purposes. You still would have Allo in the brain. Just not as much. It's suppressed.

    Also, yes. Anything possible. You won't know until you try.

  2. #422
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 JoeP26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk Smash View Post
    Do you have experience taking butyrates?

    Dosage? How long should be taken?
    Ok to take with other supplements?
    Possible reactions to expect?
    Yes. I take them daily and I have a lot of progress using them. I personally use 1.2g of sodium butyrate twice daily (every 12 hours) and 400mg of Tributyrin (once daily). I take them so long as I need to until I feel like I don't need them anymore. They seem so fine when taking other supplements. I just be sure to space out consumption of other supplements by an hour or two just because why not. Reactions would be acid sensation in your gut for a short after taking it. Other than that, no.

  3. #423
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 JoeP26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxout777 View Post
    Taking butyrates is like Russian roulette in PFS from my knowledge. When I was recovering, people suggested them and some improved and it was a great help and some crashed miserably.

    Can I ask why you're considering GH analogues, butyrates and other things not on the protocol but seem adverse to running R-Andro? Seems sort of odd, honestly.
    I hear that but I haven't personally experienced it and I'm skeptical of what those couple of people were doing on the side that they may be withholding. You're referring to the two guys on PH and I just don't view that place as a credible source for information because they claim that about everything.

    I'm not considering GH peptides. I'm already on MK-677 and have been for the past couple of months. My GH and IGF-1 were both bottomed out and I had tried everything naturally I possibly could to get those up but nothing worked. MK worked like a charm. Also, I am running R-Andro right now. I dropped progesterone and switched to it.

  4. #424
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 JoeP26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MungYarlon View Post
    Aren't all the overexpressed and underexpressed genes simply that way because of the faulty androgen receptor though, and don't function as well because of weak androgen signaling.

    If we could fix the AR straight away, wouldn't that in large solve the problem.
    Androgen receptors aren't the cause of methylation. They are one of thousands of other things that got methylated. Fixing ARs would definitely help but it wouldn't wholly solve everything else. Again, there's thousands of other thing besides ARs that got methylated and now we have proof of that.

  5. #425
    A 1k Club Member Feedback Score 0 Maxout777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    I hear that but I haven't personally experienced it and I'm skeptical of what those couple of people were doing on the side that they may be withholding. You're referring to the two guys on PH and I just don't view that place as a credible source for information because they claim that about everything.

    I'm not considering GH peptides. I'm already on MK-677 and have been for the past couple of months. My GH and IGF-1 were both bottomed out and I had tried everything naturally I possibly could to get those up but nothing worked. MK worked like a charm. Also, I am running R-Andro right now. I dropped progesterone and switched to it.
    I was referring to Hulk quoted there, not questioning you - I trust you've done your research and have based approaches off copious labs. As you said, you're informed. And I agree, people aren't on PH. I also know people personally (or as personal as you can through a forum PM, of course) that I worked with on Hack Stasis that had bad results with butyrates. Not to the probably over-exaggerated point of the PH topics you referenced (that one topic is pretty.....eh I won't touch that), but nothing pleasant.

    Either way, didn't notice at the time this was your log when replying to Hulk lol - so I apologize for jumping in there.
    There ain't no traffic along the extra mile.

    Never Quit.

  6. #426
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Hulk Smash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxout777 View Post
    I was referring to Hulk quoted there, not questioning you - I trust you've done your research and have based approaches off copious labs. As you said, you're informed. And I agree, people aren't on PH. I also know people personally (or as personal as you can through a forum PM, of course) that I worked with on Hack Stasis that had bad results with butyrates. Not to the probably over-exaggerated point of the PH topics you referenced (that one topic is pretty.....eh I won't touch that), but nothing pleasant.

    Either way, didn't notice at the time this was your log when replying to Hulk lol - so I apologize for jumping in there.
    @JoeP26
    Thanks for the info. You did your research 👍🏻
    Could come in handy should I need it.

    @Maxout777
    I'm gonna try the PH soon and will continue to stick with the rest of protocol.
    My hope is everything will recover in full with no need for extra things.
    I go back and forth with a few ideas but its more for learning right now.

  7. #427
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 JoeP26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxout777 View Post
    I was referring to Hulk quoted there, not questioning you - I trust you've done your research and have based approaches off copious labs. As you said, you're informed. And I agree, people aren't on PH. I also know people personally (or as personal as you can through a forum PM, of course) that I worked with on Hack Stasis that had bad results with butyrates. Not to the probably over-exaggerated point of the PH topics you referenced (that one topic is pretty.....eh I won't touch that), but nothing pleasant.

    Either way, didn't notice at the time this was your log when replying to Hulk lol - so I apologize for jumping in there.
    Ah ok. Gotcha.

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
    I agree with turnover25, the protocol works and everyone knows that, but it would be even better if we focus on why it is working anf try to enhance the process which will probably lead to faster recoveries, at least it makes sense

    Also joe i wanted to ask for your advice if someone like me whom was already on TRT before using Finastride and got PFS can actually get allopregnanolone and progesterone metabolites high enough to recover?

    I jumped on TRT because my testosterone was already pretty low before Finastride, and itís been over two years on TRT without using hcg son I donít think itís even possible for me to kickstart my natural production at this poin anymore, and when i hear people say you need to raise your natural hormone stream to recover makes me feel like im a lost case if I might say.
    I would just assume that you can reverse the damage to your testes, since you have to try. It may take several additional years (on top of normal PFS recovery timeline) to slowly build them back up.

    Iím not an expert on this, Iím just saying you should be willing to try to tackle this for 5 - 10 years if thatís what it takes. (I hope it only takes you several months, or a year.) Donít just give up.

  9. #429
    SwoleSource Member Feedback Score 0 GoldenSun's Avatar
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    Dang. Reading this is getting me worried. I got on TRT to try to fix my symptoms and have been on for a little bit now. I hope this doesn't mean I'm screwed (I'm getting off with HCG next week)

  10. #430
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 JoeP26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LetsGo View Post
    I would just assume that you can reverse the damage to your testes, since you have to try. It may take several additional years (on top of normal PFS recovery timeline) to slowly build them back up.

    Iím not an expert on this, Iím just saying you should be willing to try to tackle this for 5 - 10 years if thatís what it takes. (I hope it only takes you several months, or a year.) Donít just give up.
    Naw man. Trust me, the medical field has tried every which way for decades to fix primary hypogonadism and have done numerous studies on it. Men who blast roids for lengthy periods of time and suppress their testes, that later get primary hypogonadism, do not recover from it. There's nothing that can be done except TRT. That's why this forum isn't a fan of it and why standalone TRT should never be used in PFS. You run the risk of more unnecessary damage.

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