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  1. #41
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Bankai9000's Avatar
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    Allright man keep up the good work !

    Sorry didn't mean to sound negative or soo. It's quite a bit of a sensitive topic for me, since I spent hundreds of hours reading really deep into health, and idk I'm pretty convinced that fasting is probably the greatest tool we have.
    But then I saw all these people on hackstasis who have fasted and still had all these issues for such a long time. It would mess with me mentally seeing all this. Till I read more and more, and the old posts, aand the veery old posts. And in the end it was always the same, I mean I don't wanna blame ppl, everybody tries and decides for himself right. But I alwaaaaaays found the same shite, ppl fasting and taking hormones, or taking benzos, or refeeding with processed foods but not fasting again yadayada.

    There's even an argument going on if the body can even tap into deep autophagy when we drink SALT water LOL(since it stimulates digestion).
    There just aren't enough studies to show what actively messes with a prolonged fast or even helps it (coffee etc), but probably anything exogenous besides minor minerals does.

    And I'm salty cuz I'm overstressed with ma work atm, dropping an all-nighter tonight to just get done with it xD. Short term suffering for the long-term goals it is ._.
    So keep it up, great to hear you're doing better, with that I seriously mean getting off stuff and surviving, and even getting bit better? That's huge mate
    The longer we take it serious for a period of time the faster we can get to relax with all of this here and there^^

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Slept ok. Got to sleep around midnight and woke up around 4:45am. Had bad dry mouth and felt thirsty. Drank a lot of water, took some mag. and potass., and then went back to sleep for another hour. Woke up around 6am, took 3mg 5a-DHP, and went back to sleep. Woke up at 8am, took my herbs, and planning on taking a rest day today because I have been non-stop going and going with physical activity and sometimes you just need rest afterwards. On another note, one thing I hate about niacin over niacinamide is that it makes your body burn and turn red so bad for about an hour or two. Burning bad and so red right now as I type this. Might need to walk this off. This is intense.

    Edit (10am): Ok. We good. Redness and burning subsiding. So, as I was saying, I slept ok but not consistent. I'm drained, tired, and am just going to relax. Mood-wise, I'm ok. Just down in the dumps because it feels like things in the brain are so bad that it's not fixable, never feel like my old self again, and I'll be one of those guys who is here 6 years from now in my 30s having tried everything and still going through it. I'm in my 20s and already wasted the first half of that decade obsessing over hair and hiding away from the world like a recluse. Missed out on so much that I took for granted and now I have no choice but to miss out on it all. It sucks and I'm sure a lot in here can relate.

    Update (3:10pm): Depressive feeling is mildly hitting me. On top of that, the chronic "fear of everything around me" feeling is bad. I had it yesterday too. Doesn't matter what I do. I can't shake it. Just wish there was something to make me feel good and at peace. On top of that, muscle weakness is bothering me today. Mostly in my legs. Doesn't matter how much I exercise them, they don't strengthen. And ringing ears.

    Update (4:40pm): Today is just bad. I guess I hit a crash. Not like it was in the beginning but I feel like the earth is moving under me, my ears are ringing, I'm confused, weak, my mood has been depressive, my head throbs, my interest in anything is severed, and my hands and legs are cold again.
    Hey bro forgive me cuz I haven’t been following so I don’t know what you’re giving updates about, but I read you’re taking niacin, is that what this post is about? Tread lightly with B vitamins, it’s likely they can’t be taken daily. If I take b complex or b12, folate or niacin etc for more than a day I get really weird symptoms. Dry mouth, fatigue, racing thoughts, depression, anxiety, sleep issues, depression, you name it. And this is the case for many people who don’t have PFS also. Many people’s bodies metabolize b vitamins different. I take a B complex with methyl folate once every 4 days. Anything more than that and I’m in for a bad time. Just my two cents, don’t relate every single thing your feeling to PFS. Especially cuz I can tell you’re freaking yourself out just from how detailed your posts are and the frequency of them. It’s not a bad thing to update, but I can tell your thinking a lot about it. Try the breathing exercises to chill your mind out, also you need to get out of your head. Half of PFS is psychological. Anxiety or fight or flight can cause someone to have the sensation of being locked in a cage, or “in their head” break that pattern. When shit thoughts about PFS arise, stare at something in the room with you and focus only on that until you ground yourself, do that until you’re back in the present and not stuck in the loop. And be careful with B vitamins, some people including me are sensitive to them. You got this bro.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    . Just greatly looking forward to the first prohormone cycle coming up on April 6th. What is the current recommendation on prohormones, so I have an idea? I have bio-identical 3a-Androsterone or synthetic (R-DHEA and Epi-DHEA) Andro Hard at my disposal. Or is there another better suited for PFS recovery?

    Edit: Found Super R-Andro by IML. I'm going to order it next paycheck. Cycle starts April 6th.

    IronMagLabs Super R-Andro Rx 60ct, YES Still in stock!! - Flex It Nutrition
    CD currently recommends Androhard Transdermal by Muscle Gelz. I'm interested to see his response on the comparison between the transdermal and the ones you mentioned

  4. #44
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 xxaleksi's Avatar
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    Good luck on the cycle dude. You might not notice much on it but after you stop the benefits become apparent. For me, after my first cycle I could sort of relax and "wait" for the rest to improve, instead of being anxious, living day by day and second guessing everything. Definitely benefited greatly from it.

    I always applied the gel to my chest and triceps. Worked fine.

  5. #45
    A 1k Club Member Feedback Score 0 Maxout777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Day 10 on Andro Hard

    I'm sleeping a lot more than I used. So that's cool. But I wake a couple of times in between sleeping. Body temp is warmer as well. Lots of morning word and couple of times with spontaneous erections. Gravity still feels very heavy, still feel like I'm on a rocking ship at sea, and just overall unwell.

    I had my eyes on those last bottles of R-Andro on eBay but they got swiped before I could grab them. So, I have instead acquired 200 tabs of 25mg Proviron that I will run next time. Andro Hard makes you too tired and doesn't make enough DHT to make enough of an impact in my situation.

    I just learned that my DHT is actually severely low. The ratio of T to DHT should be roughly 10:1. My ratio is less than 20:1. Not good. Androsterone only makes 1/100th of DHT and EpiAndrosterone only makes 1/10th. Proviron is pure DHT with an added methyl group. I'll probably run 100-200mg daily. However, I will finish this cycle of Andro Hard, as I do like the sleeping.
    Where did you get this on the ratio? My last blood test I did, my T was 861 and my DHT was 40. Per your ratio, my DHT would have to be 86 to be right, and almost top of the scale. I’ve never seen this anywhere before.

    As well, do what you wish - but Proviron and Androsterone (R Andro/Andro Hard) are two entirely different compounds and aren’t one for one substitutes. I assure you, the DHT Prohormones are just fine to get you back to where you need to be in the DHT department.
    There ain't no traffic along the extra mile.

    Never Quit.

  6. #46
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 xxaleksi's Avatar
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    That’s interesting cuz I had all the high Prog symptoms as well and I’m a post fin guy. Still get the rocking boat feeling every once in a while and derealization but they’re mostly gone.

  7. #47
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 xxaleksi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Did you ever play with the 5ari herbs/supps?
    Nope, never took any 5ari besides fin to my knowledge. I don’t think I ever will either, after my experience with fin lol.

  8. #48
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 xxaleksi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Have you had your Progesterone checked? Might be worth it.
    Never had any of my hormones checked as one of the first things I read on PFS sites was that hormones don’t really matter with PFS as many guys have perfect hormone levels yet still have symptoms. I might give it a go though soon, just out of curiosity. Thanks for the advice.

  9. #49
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    So, at this point, I can definitively call it. For anyone out there who took Dutasteride, your course of recovery is going to be slightly different in the protocol than Finasteride guys. There are 3 total types of 5 alpha reductase in the body. We need not worry about type 3 here as no inhibitors on the market currently affect it. Finasteride only inhibits type 2 at about 60-70%. Dutasteride inhibits both 1 and 2 at 90-95%. Type 1 mainly converts progestins into neurosteroids. Type 2 mainly converts Androgens into DHT and other androgynous neurosteroids. Neurosteroids are the body's natural benzodiazepines that act positively on the GABA-a receptors. A deficiency in these causes psychosis, depression, anxiety, restlessness, insomnia, overall sense of being unwell, DP/DR, brain fog, and neural damage.

    The biggest difference we're going to have from Fin guys is our Progesterone is going to be high and our progesterone receptor over-stimulated since it's not converting to those neurosteroids. We need to get that down. Herbs for us are going to be Licorice Root and Red Clover to block the progesterone receptors. Effective medication for us to cycle is going to be Ella 5mg daily for a week. Additionally, because we are going to be **extremely low** in neurosteroids from 5ar1 not converting progestins into them, high dose 5a-DHP cycles are going to be a must. This will create those neurosteroids again and stimulate 5ar1 synthesis again. I'm currently looking into options for 17a-OHP (aka 5a-Pregnan) so we can fill in all of the gaps. I'm checking to see if IdeaLabs can synthesize this. They told me yes at one point.

    Symptoms of high progesterone:
    -Floaty/On a rocking boat feeling/Dizziness
    -Throbbing/Pins & needles sensation in legs
    -Not feeling right/unwell in the brain
    -Insomnia
    -Irritability
    -Restlessness
    -DP/DR
    -Water Retention

    This may apply to saw palmetto guys as well. Evidence shows that it inhibits both types of 5ar mentioned above like Dut does.
    I wouldn't make such a blanket statement. I only ever took fin and I was a psychotic mess. My neuro-symptoms were from hell along with all of the physical symptoms.

    Regardless, the course of action to heal is the same. Playing around with your hormone panel instead of fixing the issue holistically isn't going to get you where you need to be in the long run.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  10. #50
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    I believe you experienced neuro. I've seen your archived posts. But the logic is also based on science. In normal guys who do fine on Fin, what happens to the T to DHT ratio? 5ar2 goes down thus causing decrease in DHT and elevation in T (and E since T backload has nowhere else to go). Same logic is applied to blocking 5ar1, which converts progestins to neurosteroids. Progestins no longer converting to neurosteroids due to low 5ar1 = same effect of Progestin backload.
    I get the science.

    but depending on the guy fin can block both enzymes...maybe not to the extend of Dut, but what I experienced was from a complete lack of neurosteroids. All from fin.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

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