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  1. #501
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 JoeP26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw View Post
    Really interesting thanks.

    Just to pushback on the herbs you mentioned, if you say supplementing ALP didn't raise your gaba, wouldn't herbs be ineffective too (since you told me this summer they're supposed to raise gaba through raising ALP)?

    Maybe you're right about the serotonin. The reason I suspect it because 1) I have crazy premature ejaculation (hich is a dopamine/serotonin issue) and 2) I have low estrogen.
    Allopregnanolone only raises GABA if the neurons are there to be stimulated. If they're dead and non-existent, then Allo is ineffective at accomplishing that. Same goes for using TRT/DHT on dopamine neurons. If estradiol is low, that's likely due to low T (since T converts to E2) and thus your serotonin would possibly be low. But focusing in on just raising serotonin obviously doesn't fix that issue. It would have to be from raising T and thus raising E2.

  2. #502
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 JoeP26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AltRoute View Post
    Just a question / thought since Iím not as technical in all this as you are - obv with the neurotransmitter/gaba supps that help regenerate from the Dht inhibitor damage, obviously I appreciate these supps being part of the protocol cycle but once the the damaged Neurotransmitters is fixed, could we eventually ween offf of them or will they be something we have to take for life for maintenance ? If that makes sense
    Yes. This stuff isn't meant to be taken long term. That's why they're rotated to avoid building dependence and effectively upregulate the genes responsible for helping produce these neuro chemicals.

  3. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw View Post
    Really interesting thanks.

    Just to pushback on the herbs you mentioned, if you say supplementing ALP didn't raise your gaba, wouldn't herbs be ineffective too (since you told me this summer they're supposed to raise gaba through raising ALP)?

    Maybe you're right about the serotonin. The reason I suspect it because 1) I have crazy premature ejaculation (hich is a dopamine/serotonin issue) and 2) I have low estrogen.
    Fellas, I'm trying to follow along here but having trouble. Outlaw, when you say hes right about serotonin...because you have premature ejaculation and low E, this is to say what precisely? That your serotonin is low or high? Or just not properly being created/functioning for some reason? I'm asking because I have similar issues, and am trying to understand this.

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastnoirking87 View Post
    Fellas, I'm trying to follow along here but having trouble. Outlaw, when you say hes right about serotonin...because you have premature ejaculation and low E, this is to say what precisely? That your serotonin is low or high? Or just not properly being created/functioning for some reason? I'm asking because I have similar issues, and am trying to understand this.
    I meant that maybe Joe's right, and I don't have low serotonin.

    The reason I suspect I have low serotonin is because premature ejaculation is caused by low serotonin.

    Then Joe said usually guys don't have serotonin issues because they have high E, but I just pointed that I have low E, which is a bit less common in PFS, and could explain why I could have low serotonin.

    I often like to try to understand things, but looks like it doesn't change the solution as Joe said: protocol will fix it overtime.

  5. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw View Post
    I meant that maybe Joe's right, and I don't have low serotonin.

    The reason I suspect I have low serotonin is because premature ejaculation is caused by low serotonin.

    Then Joe said usually guys don't have serotonin issues because they have high E, but I just pointed that I have low E, which is a bit less common in PFS, and could explain why I could have low serotonin.

    I often like to try to understand things, but looks like it doesn't change the solution as Joe said: protocol will fix it overtime.
    Thank you for that, really helped me grasp the interplay of terms and symptoms. While I am not interested in taking a spot-treatment approach to all of this, I cant help but satisfy my curiosity about what is implicated in what symptom and etc. If nothing else, I like to know what aspects of the protocol are touching on certain problem areas, as I find it helps to have a conscious intention behind the work we are doing, and the more info the better in that regard.
    Only thing I think I may want to zero in on in the future is getting my estrogen checked before I decide on a specific pro hormone, but from what I hear it seems saw palmetto oftentimes causes low E in guys.. .anyway, thanks again to both of you.

  6. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastnoirking87 View Post
    Thank you for that, really helped me grasp the interplay of terms and symptoms. While I am not interested in taking a spot-treatment approach to all of this, I cant help but satisfy my curiosity about what is implicated in what symptom and etc. If nothing else, I like to know what aspects of the protocol are touching on certain problem areas, as I find it helps to have a conscious intention behind the work we are doing, and the more info the better in that regard.
    Only thing I think I may want to zero in on in the future is getting my estrogen checked before I decide on a specific pro hormone, but from what I hear it seems saw palmetto oftentimes causes low E in guys.. .anyway, thanks again to both of you.
    Yeah I feel you, you remind me of myself haha. I'm really trying to let go of that tendency, since it's been said that guys who jump head first without questioning anything recover the quickest. Easier said than done lol.

    Yeah, if your E is low you could try AlphaFour, or stack it with Ultrahard. I did both and it was great.

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw View Post
    Yeah I feel you, you remind me of myself haha. I'm really trying to let go of that tendency, since it's been said that guys who jump head first without questioning anything recover the quickest. Easier said than done lol.

    Yeah, if your E is low you could try AlphaFour, or stack it with Ultrahard. I did both and it was great.
    Thanks for the tip as always! You know I'll still be in touch when the time comes 😄

  8. #508
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Joe....welcome back brother.

    Fellas......as stated ad nauseum. I may not throw down the printed science as Joe does, but I've always been good with going by "feel." I know that doesn't translate well to others trying to get out of this situation especially the more "technical" guys, but my experience along with hundreds of others isn't a coincidence.

    Buckle down, hit the protocol and hit it hard, and stay consistent. Your hard work WILL pay off. That's a FACT.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

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