Creatine

[Ratchet]

Hey all,

I want to reopen the discussion on Creatine. I used it prior to PFS & received significant benefits from it in the gym. I’ve been listening to a few functional physicians talk about the other benefits lately i.e neuroprotection, methylation, etc. and am interested in reincorporating it. I’ve gone through threads here and know it’s sort of 50/50, but I’m curious if anything has changed for people.

I’ve seen threads on PH from people who claimed creatine crashed them. I’m not really sure how much weight any claim on that website carries for me anymore, so I want to consult with you all.

I should also note – I reintroduced creatine after PFS in the early months when everything was extremely volatile. I remember feeling better for a few weeks & then essentially “crashing”, coinciding with my creatine use. I think that this was a correlation/misassociation though, as I also used to think that certain things that would crash me I use now and don’t, and I think those ups and downs are typical for everyone in the early months. I saw a guy who claimed cloudy days and barometric pressure was crashing him (lol).

Let me know your thoughts, if you use it, or if there is any validity to the idea that creatine will exacerbate/make PFS worse

Thanks!

[Turnover25]

Not gonna lie, cloudy days used to be hell for me. They still kinda suck. I don’t know about all that barometric pressure bs but there is something about them.

[Ratchet]

Not gonna lie, cloudy days used to be hell for me. They still kinda suck. I don’t know about all that barometric pressure bs but there is something about them.

Oh yeah – I’m not discounting cloudy days or trying to diminish people’s subjective experience. They fuck me up too, and I live in the PNW.

Anyways, you using creatine?

[JoeP26]

Creatine raises 5ar type 2 by more than 50% by cycling 25g daily for 3 weeks. It's best not to listen to the those pussies at PH because they claim everything "crashes" them. If there are some that felt worse from using it, period plain and simple, they have the hyper sensitive Androgen Receptor issue and didn't have the guts to see it through and reduce that sensitivity by agonizing the receptors back into place.

5ARIs are modified progesterone. Progesterone in high doses both inhibits 5ar significantly but will also antagonize and block the ARs to serum androgens when unbound to plasma proteins. When any receptor is antagonized enough, hypersensitivity occurs to its corresponding agonist. Hypersensitivity will also have paradoxical effects, meaning mimicking symptoms of low T. Many of us are walking around daily with this problem and not even realizing it. This is why TRT and DHT in "normal ranges" does not work so often. Too little to actually set them back into place and just enough to make you feel worse. Want it to be meaningful? Suck it up and go high.

I, myself, used Creatine a few weeks ago in the same fashion as in the below study along with my Andro hard cycle. My DHT went from 33ng/dL to 76ng/dL. It works. No pain no gain.

Study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19741313/

[Cooper]

Creatine raises 5ar type 2 by more than 50% by cycling 25g daily for 3 weeks. It's best not to listen to the those pussies at PH because they claim everything "crashes" them. If there are some that felt worse from using it, period plain and simple, they have the hyper sensitive Androgen Receptor issue and didn't have the guts to see it through and reduce that sensitivity by agonizing the receptors back into place.

5ARIs are modified progesterone. Progesterone in high doses both inhibits 5ar significantly but will also antagonize and block the ARs to serum androgens when unbound to plasma proteins. When any receptor is antagonized enough, hypersensitivity occurs to its corresponding agonist. Hypersensitivity will also have paradoxical effects, meaning mimicking symptoms of low T. Many of us are walking around daily with this problem and not even realizing it. This is why TRT and DHT in "normal ranges" does not work so often. Too little to actually set them back into place and just enough to make you feel worse. Want it to be meaningful? Suck it up and go high.

I, myself, used Creatine a few weeks ago in the same fashion as in the below study along with my Andro hard cycle. My DHT went from 33ng/dL to 76ng/dL. It works. No pain no gain.

Study: Three weeks of creatine monohydrate supplementation affects dihydrotestosterone to testosterone ratio in college-aged rugby players - PubMed

Hey Joe, i think Creatine also made me worse in the past. Should i use it again with my new GYM workouts? What you think? Some people got worse from it on PH. I don't understand it's mechanism on AR. CD's protocol is focused on increasing androgens and AR. But if we feel worse by doing it, what is the solution?

[delsolrob]

Hey Joe, i think Creatine also made me worse in the past. Should i use it again with my new GYM workouts? What you think? Some people got worse from it on PH. I don't understand it's mechanism on AR. CD's protocol is focused on increasing androgens and AR. But if we feel worse by doing it, what is the solution?

there were some posts addressing this in the thread...you may wish to go back and revisit them.

[Cdsnuts]

Hey Joe, i think Creatine also made me worse in the past. Should i use it again with my new GYM workouts? What you think? Some people got worse from it on PH. I don't understand it's mechanism on AR. CD's protocol is focused on increasing androgens and AR. But if we feel worse by doing it, what is the solution?

The protocol isn't about simply raising androgens. Cooper....you said you read TMO, correct? I think you should go back and read ALL the stickies here and then re-read TMO. While you're at it, you should go through the forum and read the hundreds of posts concerning the protocol in general. Seriously.

[Turnover25]

Oh yeah – I’m not discounting cloudy days or trying to diminish people’s subjective experience. They fuck me up too, and I live in the PNW.

Anyways, you using creatine?

Weird, glad to see I’m not alone haha. I’ve never seen someone mention that so I thought I was an anomaly. It’s due to my vision issues I believe.

But nah man I’ve never tried creatine post PFS.

[Maxout777]

I used both Creatine Mono and HCL during recovery. I stopped using them during the course of my recovery, but started up again here recently. I preferred HCL during recovery, but use Thorne/Kion (whomever has the best price when I order now), and I’m pretty positive it’s monohydrate.

To Joe’s point above, feeling bad isn’t necessarily a bad thing at first. He’s spot on with the fact that most people at PH feel bad when doing something such as taking creating and immediately drop it and call that a “crash” until they return to whatever baseline it is.

[Carni]

Cloudy days made me feel shit even before pfs. Head preasure an muscle pain.