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Thread: Creatine

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    Creatine

    Hey all,

    I want to reopen the discussion on Creatine. I used it prior to PFS & received significant benefits from it in the gym. I’ve been listening to a few functional physicians talk about the other benefits lately i.e neuroprotection, methylation, etc. and am interested in reincorporating it. I’ve gone through threads here and know it’s sort of 50/50, but I’m curious if anything has changed for people.

    I’ve seen threads on PH from people who claimed creatine crashed them. I’m not really sure how much weight any claim on that website carries for me anymore, so I want to consult with you all.

    I should also note – I reintroduced creatine after PFS in the early months when everything was extremely volatile. I remember feeling better for a few weeks & then essentially “crashing”, coinciding with my creatine use. I think that this was a correlation/misassociation though, as I also used to think that certain things that would crash me I use now and don’t, and I think those ups and downs are typical for everyone in the early months. I saw a guy who claimed cloudy days and barometric pressure was crashing him (lol).

    Let me know your thoughts, if you use it, or if there is any validity to the idea that creatine will exacerbate/make PFS worse

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Ratchet; 07-28-2020 at 03:07 PM.

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    Not gonna lie, cloudy days used to be hell for me. They still kinda suck. I don’t know about all that barometric pressure bs but there is something about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    Not gonna lie, cloudy days used to be hell for me. They still kinda suck. I don’t know about all that barometric pressure bs but there is something about them.
    Oh yeah – I’m not discounting cloudy days or trying to diminish people’s subjective experience. They fuck me up too, and I live in the PNW.

    Anyways, you using creatine?

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    Creatine raises 5ar type 2 by more than 50% by cycling 25g daily for 3 weeks. It's best not to listen to the those pussies at PH because they claim everything "crashes" them. If there are some that felt worse from using it, period plain and simple, they have the hyper sensitive Androgen Receptor issue and didn't have the guts to see it through and reduce that sensitivity by agonizing the receptors back into place.

    5ARIs are modified progesterone. Progesterone in high doses both inhibits 5ar significantly but will also antagonize and block the ARs to serum androgens when unbound to plasma proteins. When any receptor is antagonized enough, hypersensitivity occurs to its corresponding agonist. Hypersensitivity will also have paradoxical effects, meaning mimicking symptoms of low T. Many of us are walking around daily with this problem and not even realizing it. This is why TRT and DHT in "normal ranges" does not work so often. Too little to actually set them back into place and just enough to make you feel worse. Want it to be meaningful? Suck it up and go high.

    I, myself, used Creatine a few weeks ago in the same fashion as in the below study along with my Andro hard cycle. My DHT went from 33ng/dL to 76ng/dL. It works. No pain no gain.

    Study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19741313/
    Last edited by JoeP26; 07-29-2020 at 09:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratchet View Post
    Oh yeah – I’m not discounting cloudy days or trying to diminish people’s subjective experience. They fuck me up too, and I live in the PNW.

    Anyways, you using creatine?
    Weird, glad to see I’m not alone haha. I’ve never seen someone mention that so I thought I was an anomaly. It’s due to my vision issues I believe.

    But nah man I’ve never tried creatine post PFS.

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    I used both Creatine Mono and HCL during recovery. I stopped using them during the course of my recovery, but started up again here recently. I preferred HCL during recovery, but use Thorne/Kion (whomever has the best price when I order now), and I’m pretty positive it’s monohydrate.

    To Joe’s point above, feeling bad isn’t necessarily a bad thing at first. He’s spot on with the fact that most people at PH feel bad when doing something such as taking creating and immediately drop it and call that a “crash” until they return to whatever baseline it is.

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    Cloudy days made me feel shit even before pfs. Head preasure an muscle pain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxout777 View Post
    I used both Creatine Mono and HCL during recovery. I stopped using them during the course of my recovery, but started up again here recently. I preferred HCL during recovery, but use Thorne/Kion (whomever has the best price when I order now), and I’m pretty positive it’s monohydrate.

    To Joe’s point above, feeling bad isn’t necessarily a bad thing at first. He’s spot on with the fact that most people at PH feel bad when doing something such as taking creating and immediately drop it and call that a “crash” until they return to whatever baseline it is.
    I believe that too, which is why I take everything on PH with a grain of salt. I’ll probably give CreaPure Mono, the one made in Germany, a shot. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Creatine raises 5ar by more than 50% by cycling 25g daily for 3 weeks. It's best not to listen to the those pussies at PH because they claim everything "crashes" them. If there are some that felt worse from using it, period plain and simple, they have the hyper sensitive Androgen Receptor issue and didn't have the guts to see it through and reduce that sensitivity by agonizing the receptors back into place.

    5ARIs are modified progesterone. Progesterone in high doses both inhibits 5ar significantly but will also antagonize and block the ARs to serum androgens when unbound to plasma proteins. When any receptor is antagonized enough, hypersensitivity occurs to its corresponding agonist. Hypersensitivity will also have paradoxical effects, meaning mimicking symptoms of low T. Many of us are walking around daily with this problem and not even realizing it. This is why TRT and DHT in "normal ranges" does not work so often. Too little to actually set them back into place and just enough to make you feel worse. Want it to be meaningful? Suck it up and go high.

    I, myself, used Creatine a few weeks ago in the same fashion as in the below study along with my Andro hard cycle. My DHT went from 33ng/dL to 76ng/dL. It works. No pain no gain.

    Study: Three weeks of creatine monohydrate supplementation affects dihydrotestosterone to testosterone ratio in college-aged rugby players - PubMed
    How are you feeling afterwards? My serum DHT levels are around 290ng/dL last time I checked, which is honestly in line with my low total T levels of ~370. But you and I both know serum levels don’t mean shit, so symptomatically/quality of life-speaking, has creatine improved your condition?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratchet View Post
    How are you feeling afterwards? My serum DHT levels are around 290ng/dL last time I checked, which is honestly in line with my low total T levels of ~370. But you and I both know serum levels don’t mean shit, so symptomatically/quality of life-speaking, has creatine improved your condition?
    Your DHT is 290ng/dL?! How are you still breathing with that high of a value? And yes. Physically, raising my DHT helped a bit. It just didn't help my brain because DHT doesn't get into the brain. Using Creatine and DHT prohormones will stimulate 5ar type 2 (expressed in the skin) but will not fix any 5ar type 1 (expressed in the brain) problems. 5ar type 1 converts progesterone to 5a-Dihydroprogesterone (5a-DHP), which makes Allopregnenolone which then makes DHT downstream. Completely different pathway system than the well known 5ar type 2 pathway that converts testosterone to DHT.

    First and foremost, you gotta fix that testosterone deficiency. Insufficient Testosterone yields insufficient DHT and other 5ar2 metabolites. And you cannot run anything to boost DHT until it's at least in the 400-600 total range with mid to lower range SHBG. Otherwise, it doesn't work. Get your LH, FSH, and DHEA checked. I'm willing to bet one or multiple of those are low if your T is that low. If LH or FSH are low, you need Clomid. If LH and FSH are fine but your DHEA is low, you need DHEA. If they're all fine or high, it's your boys not working properly and you need TRT.
    Last edited by JoeP26; 07-29-2020 at 09:49 AM.

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