My Methylated vitamin crash in 2020: How I fixed it

[Celtic]

Thanks for writing up this post Turnover. This is a very clear, informative account of what happened to you and how you fixed it.
I went on to Phoenix Rising to try and find out more on the topic and quite frankly I don't know how you navigated that minefield at all.
There are literally 100s of people all writing shit up and its very hard to find clear, lucid instructions in all of it; ironic really, because almost all of them are writing up very technical information about all sorts of crazy shit but yet they're almost contradicting each other and never coming to a clear answer in discussions.
(But we definitely can't rule out that I'm the problem. Brain fog ain't exactly great here at the moment lol)
Anyway I was looking at Fred's protocol here (I'll post the lnk below) and I have a few questions man.

B-12 - The Hidden Story | Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Forums

1) Is this the protocol to get out of the methyl trap that you referred to in your story? Methyl Trap specifically? and not Paradoxical Folate Deficiency?

2) If this IS the protocol for methyl trap how long are you supposed to carry it out for? I see that you said you did it for a few days but then I noticed some people on the forum said they did it for a few months. Does Fred recommend you do this indefinitely until you experience results?

3) I seen that you mentioned in your post that you took "Nature Made B complex with C" because it contains no folate or B12. Which seems like a solid suggestion because im shit scared to take anything with folate or b12 after that crash a couple of weeks ago BUT at the same time I think I'm now showing deficiencies in vitamin B, so it would be a good idea to take that supplement. However I seen that in Fred's protocol he just recommends "Jarrow B-Right B-complex". Which DOES contain methylfolate and methylcobalamin (active folate and active B12 for those reading) did you do your own research and decide not to go with that brand supplement for any specific reason or do you think it would be OK to go with Fred's suggestion? I'm in Ireland and can't get that brand you got (at least not without waiting a month or so for delivery)

4) did you abstain from vegetables or foods high in folate before you tried this remedy? And if you did how long for?

5) for the methyl trap did you take any of the Country Life Dibencozide (adenosylb12) recommended as well as mb12 or just mb12 on its own?

6) I noticed you said you done this remedy a handful of times. What caused you to have to redo it again? Did you start experimenting with methylated vitamins again or was it something else?

7) Do you know can regular B vitamins cause this problem of crashing? Did you ever crash from just regular B vitamins? Cause I was taking a regular B complex on and off for 18 months or so and now looking back I think I can link the times that I was ON the B complex to some funny side effects. But maybe I'm just connecting dots that aren't there.

Once again thanks for any help man. You've done a lot of work here to do all that research and then write up that post to help all of us.
I'm just trying to pick your brain a bit more cause like I said PR is a bit of a minefield and im not exactly firing on all cylinders atm lol.
Cheers pal

[Turnover25]

Thanks for writing up this post Turnover. This is a very clear, informative account of what happened to you and how you fixed it.
I went on to Phoenix Rising to try and find out more on the topic and quite frankly I don't know how you navigated that minefield at all.
There are literally 100s of people all writing shit up and its very hard to find clear, lucid instructions in all of it; ironic really, because almost all of them are writing up very technical information about all sorts of crazy shit but yet they're almost contradicting each other and never coming to a clear answer in discussions.
(But we definitely can't rule out that I'm the problem. Brain fog ain't exactly great here at the moment lol)
Anyway I was looking at Fred's protocol here (I'll post the lnk below) and I have a few questions man.

B-12 - The Hidden Story | Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Forums

1) Is this the protocol to get out of the methyl trap that you referred to in your story? Methyl Trap specifically? and not Paradoxical Folate Deficiency?

2) If this IS the protocol for methyl trap how long are you supposed to carry it out for? I see that you said you did it for a few days but then I noticed some people on the forum said they did it for a few months. Does Fred recommend you do this indefinitely until you experience results?

3) I seen that you mentioned in your post that you took "Nature Made B complex with C" because it contains no folate or B12. Which seems like a solid suggestion because im shit scared to take anything with folate or b12 after that crash a couple of weeks ago BUT at the same time I think I'm now showing deficiencies in vitamin B, so it would be a good idea to take that supplement. However I seen that in Fred's protocol he just recommends "Jarrow B-Right B-complex". Which DOES contain methylfolate and methylcobalamin (active folate and active B12 for those reading) did you do your own research and decide not to go with that brand supplement for any specific reason or do you think it would be OK to go with Fred's suggestion? I'm in Ireland and can't get that brand you got (at least not without waiting a month or so for delivery)

4) did you abstain from vegetables or foods high in folate before you tried this remedy? And if you did how long for?

5) for the methyl trap did you take any of the Country Life Dibencozide (adenosylb12) recommended as well as mb12 or just mb12 on its own?

6) I noticed you said you done this remedy a handful of times. What caused you to have to redo it again? Did you start experimenting with methylated vitamins again or was it something else?

7) Do you know can regular B vitamins cause this problem of crashing? Did you ever crash from just regular B vitamins? Cause I was taking a regular B complex on and off for 18 months or so and now looking back I think I can link the times that I was ON the B complex to some funny side effects. But maybe I'm just connecting dots that aren't there.

Once again thanks for any help man. You've done a lot of work here to do all that research and then write up that post to help all of us.
I'm just trying to pick your brain a bit more cause like I said PR is a bit of a minefield and im not exactly firing on all cylinders atm lol.
Cheers pal

It took a long time of researching that forum, everyone contradicts each other and its tough to know what route to go. I was confused as hell. I eventually stumbled upon different stories of people who had gotten worse (CFS wise) from methylated vitamins and Freddd discussed with them how to get out of it. Try and find one of those posts, it's difficult. I can try and find the originals but it may take a minute.

1. He isn't talking about how to get out of methyl trap or paradoxical folate deficiency. He's basically just discussing the do's and don'ts of Freddd's actual protocol, which I've never tried. Freddd has an actual protocol (just as CD) to treat CFS via methylated vitamins. I took methylated vitamins, got stuck in paradoxical folate deficiency, and needed to be guided on how to fix it. Which he explains in numerous posts, I eventually just memorized it because I had to end up doing it and I researched the hell out of it. I still follow most of it when I take methyls, such as taking cofactors with it.

2. I'm not sure. I didn't have methyl trap, but I imagine you'd start feeling relief immediately or within a few days. It made me worse. I tested methyl trap by taking all the cofactors I listed for a few days, then taking some folate (like 1000 mcg) a day along with like 2 tablets of B12 under my lip. I did that for a few days, my DPDR got WAY worse, same with anxiety, and I didn't feel like I was moving in the right direction. (This was due to me taking not enough folate to fix my folate deficiency that was getting worse every time I took folate). So I moved onto the next option after a couple of days and it worked. Which was upping my folate intake by 5 pills every 10-20 min or so until I started to feel better. Around 30 of them or so. Don't take a fuck ton of them. That's the only difference between the 2 approaches I took, was the amount of folate.

3. You're gonna want Metafolin 1000 MCG, get the 120 tablets one. If you have to wait, so be it. That's the one he says you need to take to get out of paradoxical folate deficiency, and I tried others and they weren't as good. He recommended the Metafolin, Country life Methyl B12 (1000 mcg), Dibencoplex 10,000 (Adenob12), and the nature made B complex with C. Along with those other vitamins I listed, but you may need more or less of them. I didn't take all the ones he listed and I was fine, just needed more folate.

4. Yes. Until I started to feel better. Eating them would make me miserable.

5. Yes. You're going to want the Dibencoplex 10,000 and the country life Methyl B12. Both forms of active B12 are necessary to get out of the methyl trap. I forgot to mention that in the post.

6. I didn't repeat it because I had to, it just made me feel REALLY good to take like 30,000 MCG of folate along with b12. But every time I take methyls, I take all of the cofactor vitamins I listed along with it. I don't ever only take 1 metafolin. It's at least 5-10 capsules (5000-10,000 MCG) each time. My body doesn't process folate so I require a bit more of it. Your genetics can come into play here too. That's what I meant by me repeating the process.

7. I wasted a ton of time worrying about that exact thing. Then I ran pro-hormones and realized it wasn't the B vitamins. After my methyl crash, I ran all the "what ifs" about maybe I'm just deficient in B vitamins and I don't have PFS, all that. The B vitamins didn't crash you, nor will they make you crash. The only things that will happen are paradoxical folate deficiency, or methyl trap, but both of those will exasperate your PFS. It won't crash you all over again, just make it worse temporarily. B vitamins do a lot with neurotransmitters, all that. So they could make you feel worse. B vitamins aren't required to recover, if they make you feel bad just get your B vitamins from food. Although, if the B complex you're taking contains folic acid, stop taking it. Folic acid is a synthetic version of folate, it's found in breads and shit too, I can't take it or it makes me feel like shit, and I had the same issue taking a B complex that had folic acid in it. That's the point of the nature made B complex with C.

[Turnover25]

Thanks for writing up this post Turnover. This is a very clear, informative account of what happened to you and how you fixed it.
I went on to Phoenix Rising to try and find out more on the topic and quite frankly I don't know how you navigated that minefield at all.
There are literally 100s of people all writing shit up and its very hard to find clear, lucid instructions in all of it; ironic really, because almost all of them are writing up very technical information about all sorts of crazy shit but yet they're almost contradicting each other and never coming to a clear answer in discussions.
(But we definitely can't rule out that I'm the problem. Brain fog ain't exactly great here at the moment lol)
Anyway I was looking at Fred's protocol here (I'll post the lnk below) and I have a few questions man.

B-12 - The Hidden Story | Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Forums

1) Is this the protocol to get out of the methyl trap that you referred to in your story? Methyl Trap specifically? and not Paradoxical Folate Deficiency?

2) If this IS the protocol for methyl trap how long are you supposed to carry it out for? I see that you said you did it for a few days but then I noticed some people on the forum said they did it for a few months. Does Fred recommend you do this indefinitely until you experience results?

3) I seen that you mentioned in your post that you took "Nature Made B complex with C" because it contains no folate or B12. Which seems like a solid suggestion because im shit scared to take anything with folate or b12 after that crash a couple of weeks ago BUT at the same time I think I'm now showing deficiencies in vitamin B, so it would be a good idea to take that supplement. However I seen that in Fred's protocol he just recommends "Jarrow B-Right B-complex". Which DOES contain methylfolate and methylcobalamin (active folate and active B12 for those reading) did you do your own research and decide not to go with that brand supplement for any specific reason or do you think it would be OK to go with Fred's suggestion? I'm in Ireland and can't get that brand you got (at least not without waiting a month or so for delivery)

4) did you abstain from vegetables or foods high in folate before you tried this remedy? And if you did how long for?

5) for the methyl trap did you take any of the Country Life Dibencozide (adenosylb12) recommended as well as mb12 or just mb12 on its own?

6) I noticed you said you done this remedy a handful of times. What caused you to have to redo it again? Did you start experimenting with methylated vitamins again or was it something else?

7) Do you know can regular B vitamins cause this problem of crashing? Did you ever crash from just regular B vitamins? Cause I was taking a regular B complex on and off for 18 months or so and now looking back I think I can link the times that I was ON the B complex to some funny side effects. But maybe I'm just connecting dots that aren't there.

Once again thanks for any help man. You've done a lot of work here to do all that research and then write up that post to help all of us.
I'm just trying to pick your brain a bit more cause like I said PR is a bit of a minefield and im not exactly firing on all cylinders atm lol.
Cheers pal

Methylfolate side effects what happened | Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Forums

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/methylation-protocol-issues-only-three-months-in.38309/

Here’s a couple links where he discusses things. All I can find for now. There’s a post of another guy who solved his issue by upping his folate intake, which is the one I went off, but I can’t find it at the moment.

[Marduk]

Does this implies that PFS is not connected to CFS in anyway? I myself believe i have a vitamin B deficiency symptoms (skin and nails) is it safe for me to try normal vitamin B complex? Also can neurorubine injections cause this paradox?

[Cdsnuts]

Personally, this whole methyltrap thing is the first I've heard of it. But I've never had anyone come across this problem before. I think there has to be a section for this because I don't want guys getting confused on how to proceed with the protocol. We all see people have trouble enough without having to think about anything else. I can guarantee this is going to add confusion.

[Turnover25]

Personally, this whole methyltrap thing is the first I've heard of it. But I've never had anyone come across this problem before. I think there has to be a section for this because I don't want guys getting confused on how to proceed with the protocol. We all see people have trouble enough without having to think about anything else. I can guarantee this is going to add confusion.

I agree, I don’t want this to add confusion in regards of the protocol.

[Cdsnuts]

I agree, I don’t want this to add confusion in regards of the protocol.

Especially since it just hasn't been an issue before. We'll just keep this in your thread and leave it at that. If anyone has any questions, they can PM you. Thanks.

[Turnover25]

Especially since it just hasn't been an issue before. We'll just keep this in your thread and leave it at that. If anyone has any questions, they can PM you. Thanks.

No problem. My intention was just to share my experience, and potentially help a small subset of people who could use this eventually. Sorry for the confusion.

[Cdsnuts]

No problem. My intention was just to share my experience, and potentially help a small subset of people who could use this eventually. Sorry for the confusion.

I understand and there is no reason to apologize. It's just you see the questions that are asked on here on a daily basis. Most of them could have been answered by simply reading the forum a bit. Actually, ALL of them can be answered if someone spent enough time going through all of the posts here. This place is a gold mine of info and If I died tomorrow, there would be no reason that someone couldn't come here and recover on their own without me answering anymore questions.

I appreciate you spending the time and helping out. I'm just trying to keep this as remedial as possible.

[Turnover25]

I understand and there is no reason to apologize. It's just you see the questions that are asked on here on a daily basis. Most of them could have been answered by simply reading the forum a bit. Actually, ALL of them can be answered if someone spent enough time going through all of the posts here. This place is a gold mine of info and If I died tomorrow, there would be no reason that someone couldn't come here and recover on their own without me answering anymore questions.

I appreciate you spending the time and helping out. I'm just trying to keep this as remedial as possible.

All good brother, you’ve done a good thing here and I’ve benefited greatly by this place, I don’t want to take away from the point of things here.