R Andro + 4 Andro

[TubZy]

Out of interest, what is the reasoning in using things like androsterone for mental benefits in lieu of things which help with allopregnanolone?

Sure - I'll give you my take and try to make it short.

First off androsterone is a neurosteroid. We know for a fact that finasteride lowers androsterone levels in the body and brain. Androsterone is also a GABA-A agonist just like allopregnanolone is. This means that if the brain is under some sort of stress androsterone can act as a GABA-A helper to agonize or stimulate that receptor (allopregnanolone does the same). Allopregnanolone itself isn't that important it just happens to the neurosteroid that takes the biggest hit from fin but plenty of other hormones are negatively impacted as well. All of these GABA-A agonist were being inhibited with fin which causes the GABA-A receptor to upregulate along with androgen receptor in the brain to upregulate.

What makes androsterone special though is it seems to replace a lot of the other key areas that finasteride negatively impacted - specifically in the brain and body. Androsterone increases the brain levels of androsterone, epiandrosterone, 5α-dihydrotestosterone, and androstandiol.

So we know that finasteride blocked GABA, lowered DHT in the entire body including the brain, raises serum estrogen etc.

Androsterone does the total opposite of what fin does in all areas meaning instead of blocking GABA you are agonizing it now (causing it to downregulate), instead of lowering DHT you are increasing it in the body and brain (causing the AR to downregulate), instead of raising estrogen you are lowering it etc. So whether its a receptor issue or something else you are pushing yourself in the right direction.

To pinpoint exactly which area is the root cause I don't know but in laymans terms androsterone is the best to cover all areas that fin screwed up.

References:


Psychomotor and rewarding properties of the neurosteroids dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate and androsterone: effects on monoamine and steroid metabolism - PubMed
Plasma androsterone/epiandrosterone sulfates as markers of 5 alpha-reductase activity: effect of finasteride in normal men - PubMed
PayPerView: Effects of Subchronic Finasteride Treatment and Withdrawal on Neuroactive Steroid Levels and Their Receptors in the Male Rat Brain - Karger Publishers

[Turnover25]

Sure - I'll give you my take and try to make it short.

First off androsterone is a neurosteroid. We know for a fact that finasteride lowers androsterone levels in the body and brain. Androsterone is also a GABA-A agonist just like allopregnanolone is. This means that if the brain is under some sort of stress androsterone can act as a GABA-A helper to agonize or stimulate that receptor (allopregnanolone does the same). Allopregnanolone itself isn't that important it just happens to the neurosteroid that takes the biggest hit from fin but plenty of other hormones are negatively impacted as well. All of these GABA-A agonist were being inhibited with fin which causes the GABA-A receptor to upregulate along with androgen receptor in the brain to upregulate.

What makes androsterone special though is it seems to replace a lot of the other key areas that finasteride negatively impacted - specifically in the brain and body. Androsterone increases the brain levels of androsterone, epiandrosterone, 5α-dihydrotestosterone, and androstandiol.

So we know that finasteride blocked GABA, lowered DHT in the entire body including the brain, raises serum estrogen etc.

Androsterone does the total opposite of what fin does in all areas meaning instead of blocking GABA you are agonizing it now (causing it to downregulate), instead of lowering DHT you are increasing it in the body and brain (causing the AR to downregulate), instead of raising estrogen you are lowering it etc. So whether its a receptor issue or something else you are pushing yourself in the right direction.

To pinpoint exactly which area is the root cause I don't know but in laymans terms androsterone is the best to cover all areas that fin screwed up.

References:


Psychomotor and rewarding properties of the neurosteroids dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate and androsterone: effects on monoamine and steroid metabolism - PubMed
Plasma androsterone/epiandrosterone sulfates as markers of 5 alpha-reductase activity: effect of finasteride in normal men - PubMed
PayPerView: Effects of Subchronic Finasteride Treatment and Withdrawal on Neuroactive Steroid Levels and Their Receptors in the Male Rat Brain - Karger Publishers

In regards to androsterone being the best, how about epiandrosterone and the differences? Is one better? I’ve ran cycles of both and noticed different things from each. Do they essentially work the same?

[TubZy]

In regards to androsterone being the best, how about epiandrosterone and the differences? Is one better? I’ve ran cycles of both and noticed different things from each. Do they essentially work the same?

Androsterone is the Alpha isomer and Epiandrosterone is the Beta Isomer.

Epiandro is more stimulating and acts as a GABA antagonist while Androsterone is a GABA agonist which is more calming. Androsterone is also much more androgenic.

They work the same in the sense they both can convert to DHT through the backdoor pathway but the molecules itself have different direct effects.

Also, in the study I linked above - direct androsterone supplementation increased epiandrosterone in the brain - so you are still technically still getting an increased conversion to epiandro even if you are just supplementing androsterone alone.

From my personal experimentation with epiandro and I think CD had the same but it killed my libido a bit and made me irritated/aggressive without the androgenic properties along with muscle spasms/hearth palps. It basically felt similar to a stimulant for me and I felt weird on it.

I think high doses of androsterone only is the best and that is what I'm trialing now and it seems to be the best especially for mental issues - at least for me.

[Turnover25]

Androsterone is the Alpha isomer and Epiandrosterone is the Beta Isomer.

Epiandro is more stimulating and acts as a GABA antagonist while Androsterone is a GABA agonist which is more calming. Androsterone is also much more androgenic.

They work the same in the sense they both can convert to DHT through the backdoor pathway but the molecules itself have different direct effects.

Also, in the study I linked above - direct androsterone supplementation increased epiandrosterone in the brain - so you are still technically still getting an increased conversion to epiandro even if you are just supplementing androsterone alone.

From my personal experimentation with epiandro and I think CD had the same but it killed my libido a bit and made me irritated/aggressive without the androgenic properties along with muscle spasms/hearth palps. It basically felt similar to a stimulant for me and I felt weird on it.

I think high doses of androsterone only is the best and that is what I'm trialing now and it seems to be the best especially for mental issues - at least for me.

Interesting. Thanks for the input bro. I noticed pretty big differences between the 2 as well. Just began my 3rd cycle this morning so we will see how this plays out.

Just curious, do you still do the protocol advised here? Diet, cold showers, herbs, sunlight, etc? I’ve never really visited hack so I don’t know what goes on over there.

[Cdsnuts]

If I'd have to put a number on it I'd say about 85% recovered. Mainly just mental symptoms remaining.

Been posting on HS for a while and TBH I forgot about this place.

Like you could really forget about SS.....come Tubz.....lol

[TubZy]

Interesting. Thanks for the input bro. I noticed pretty big differences between the 2 as well. Just began my 3rd cycle this morning so we will see how this plays out.

Just curious, do you still do the protocol advised here? Diet, cold showers, herbs, sunlight, etc? I’ve never really visited hack so I don’t know what goes on over there.

Yeah most of it besides the T boosting herbs right now since I'm on androsterone and I plan to stay on for a pretty long time at a high dose. Which type/brand of andro prohormone supplement are using now?

Regarding Hack, similar to here just with some more experimental stuff - CD protocol is advised there as a recommended protocol too.

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Like you could really forget about SS.....come Tubz.....lol

[LetsGo]

I haven’t been able to find anything that has andro but no epiandro. When I use epiandro at 8:15 AM, it keeps me awake until 3:30 AM. (I’m extremely sensitive to all stimulants.)

[Cdsnuts]

I haven’t been able to find anything that has andro but no epiandro. When I use epiandro at 8:15 AM, it keeps me awake until 3:30 AM. (I’m extremely sensitive to all stimulants.)

Super R Andro Topical Cream by Iron Mag Labs (DHT) - GymNTonic.com

Use Code: cdsnuts.

I'm sensitive to epi as well. I've heard rave reviews about this product and I'm going to personally run it this summer. This product should have the opposite effect on you. It SHOULD calm you down and HELP you sleep because of gaba agonism.

FYI, that code works for ANY product in this store. There are other helpful ones there as well you could get into if you pleased.

[Turnover25]

Super R Andro Topical Cream by Iron Mag Labs (DHT) - GymNTonic.com

Use Code: cdsnuts.

I'm sensitive to epi as well. I've heard rave reviews about this product and I'm going to personally run it this summer. This product should have the opposite effect on you. It SHOULD calm you down and HELP you sleep because of gaba agonism.

FYI, that code works for ANY product in this store. There are other helpful ones there as well you could get into if you pleased.

This is huge

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I haven’t been able to find anything that has andro but no epiandro. When I use epiandro at 8:15 AM, it keeps me awake until 3:30 AM. (I’m extremely sensitive to all stimulants.)

For what it’s worth, my first cycle a lot of the time I slept like 3 hours a night. It’s all documented in the thread I believe. But I kept at it and finished it and the benefits were great and my I could sleep fine after cycle.

[Cdsnuts]

This is huge

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For what it’s worth, my first cycle a lot of the time I slept like 3 hours a night. It’s all documented in the thread I believe. But I kept at it and finished it and the benefits were great and my I could sleep fine after cycle.

Yeah.....it will eventually catch up, brain wise, sleep wise, etc. Some people are just a little too juiced up on the epi. This product will NOT do that.

Don't get me wrong, they both work exactly the same at increasing 5ar, so no worries there. Also, most guys I know prefer androsterone to epi as well. Now, we have choices. The end result will still be the same