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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    I appreciate you guys wanting others to know, finally......It's been a long ten years. But Max said it right. Unfortunately they are going to have to learn about it themselves OR if their were enough guys saying that it's helping them, the tide will start to shift.

    Believe it or not, the tide is starting to shift as it is. Our buddy @JoeP Whatsapp group is "pro-healing" and a large portion of those guys are understanding of the fact that the protocol does in fact work. This is the first time that a large enough group of people are finally waking up to the fact that this is not a terminal condition.

    Now granted, they are doing their thing over there and trying different avenues, but the tried and true standard of healing, still remains this protocol. It is understood that it is a marathon, not a sprint and that it takes ALL your time and effort. So, most guys, will try a few things before finally setting into the protocol.

    Everyone wants the silver bullet that doesn't exist, but that doesn't stop them from trying. They eventually come around though.

    Joe has been very active on the other side fighting the powers that be. Hopefully they don't smear his name like they did mine.

    Bottom line guys....the truth is the truth and will always be, whether believed or not. It really is up to you guys to spread the word.
    The tide is indeed turning. I think once the upcoming Baylor study is released, people will begin to realise that it's not genetics but epigenetics which is causative in PFS. This is quite important because while we cannot change genetic issues without the use of high-end experimental technology, that is not the case with epigenetics.

    Once they realise that leading a healthy lifestyle can activate/ silence genes thus leading to stronger genetic makeup, they will be more willing to take it on. If, as the consensus seems to be, androgen receptors are the ones which have been epigenetic ally altered, then they haven't been completely altered. People still lose their hair, grow beards, have spermatogenesis occur (albeit some can't or not as well as they could). All these are signs that androgen receptors are not completely fucked but still are to an extent.

    We shouldn't see PFS as contrasted with health/ recovery, just as black would contrast with white. Rather we should it as a scale with PFS on one side, and perfect health on the other. Doing all the good things to treat the body will invariably move a person from one side of the scale to the other.

    This is not some sort of mystical illness, it's just extremely poor health. Once people realise that, and only then, will they accept that the universal PH idea that "a bunch of herbs and cold showers won't cure you" is rubbish.

    I hope what I said makes sense, and doesn't belittle what anyone is going through. That's the last thing I would want anyone to believe I am arguing.
    Last edited by MungYarlon; 05-21-2021 at 06:47 PM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by MungYarlon View Post
    The tide is indeed turning. I think once the upcoming Baylor study is released, people will begin to realise that it's not genetics but epigenetics which is causative in PFS. This is quite important because while we cannot change genetic issues without the use of high-end experimental technology, that is not the case with epigenetics.

    Once they realise that leading a healthy lifestyle can activate/ silence genes thus leading to stronger genetic makeup, they will be more willing to take it on. If, as the consensus seems to be, androgen receptors are the ones which have been epigenetic ally altered, then they haven't been completely altered. People still lose their hair, grow beards, have spermatogenesis occur (albeit some can't or not as well as they could). All these are signs that androgen receptors are not completely fucked but still are to an extent.

    We shouldn't see PFS as contrasted with health/ recovery, just as black would contrast with white. Rather we should it as a scale with PFS on one side, and perfect health on the other. Doing all the good things to treat the body will invariably move a person from one side of the scale to the other.

    This is not some sort of mystical illness, it's just extremely poor health. Once people realise that, and only then, will they accept that the universal PH idea that "a bunch of herbs and cold showers won't cure you" is rubbish.

    I hope what I said makes sense, and doesn't belittle what anyone is going through. That's the last thing I would want anyone to believe I am arguing.
    It didn't seem like you were arguing anything at all....All good as far as I'm concerned.

    It took ten long years for there to be enough "noise" for us to finally be heard. It started a little over a decade ago and has finally started gaining critical mass. For us, nothing has changed. We know the deal. But for others.....it's going to be a huge eye opener.

    We have to be there to collect the broken pieces and help put them together again.

    We are getting there. Slowly, but surely.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  3. #43
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    So the past 5 days have been loaded with pain and injury... and I can’t figure out why.

    It seems like every time I sleep I wake up with a new pain in my upper back.

    Wednesday/Thursday my neck and shoulders ached. I blame this on a bad sleeping position but the pain was so ridiculous I can’t imagine it.

    Friday I had a little fever after my 2nd covid dose which is understandable and went away a day after, still some lingering neck pain.

    Saturday I had no pain at all.

    And then today I’ve woke up with aching upper back pain that feels like I’ve been sliced open with a knife. I can almost feel the blood internally gushing and it’s completely numb back there.

    I don’t know what I’m doing wrong but it seems like on this protocol all that happens to me is I get injured. I just hope god has mercy on me, I’ve had enough chronic pain in my life and I feel like PFS makes it worse and makes me more prone to injury. But simultaneously I heal so slow, several days for each injury. And they ruin my entire day each time. Your androgens can’t do anything when your body is constantly injured.

    For context: I had severe scoliosis growing up and surgery at 14. The hardware cause immersed upper back pain so I got it removed. It got much better after that thankfully but maybe there’s still some scar tissue there injuring me whenever I keep my shoulders back in workouts?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zonz View Post
    So the past 5 days have been loaded with pain and injury... and I can’t figure out why.

    It seems like every time I sleep I wake up with a new pain in my upper back.

    Wednesday/Thursday my neck and shoulders ached. I blame this on a bad sleeping position but the pain was so ridiculous I can’t imagine it.

    Friday I had a little fever after my 2nd covid dose which is understandable and went away a day after, still some lingering neck pain.

    Saturday I had no pain at all.

    And then today I’ve woke up with aching upper back pain that feels like I’ve been sliced open with a knife. I can almost feel the blood internally gushing and it’s completely numb back there.

    I don’t know what I’m doing wrong but it seems like on this protocol all that happens to me is I get injured. I just hope god has mercy on me, I’ve had enough chronic pain in my life and I feel like PFS makes it worse and makes me more prone to injury. But simultaneously I heal so slow, several days for each injury. And they ruin my entire day each time. Your androgens can’t do anything when your body is constantly injured.

    For context: I had severe scoliosis growing up and surgery at 14. The hardware cause immersed upper back pain so I got it removed. It got much better after that thankfully but maybe there’s still some scar tissue there injuring me whenever I keep my shoulders back in workouts?
    Ok....I'm going to stop you right there....

    This protocol is NOT injuring you.....that's impossible. You have old injuries that are acting up which is very common whenever you do any type of cleanse
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  5. #45
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    I’ve been feeling good again. Focusing on running and calisthenics to prevent injury. These prohormones can be tough!

  6. #46
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zonz View Post
    I’ve been feeling good again. Focusing on running and calisthenics to prevent injury. These prohormones can be tough!
    How so?
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  7. #47
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    I think Low E makes you prone to injury especially when you’re not recovered yet and your bones and joints are still weak.

    Edit: To add, I do suspect that I have low E on UltraHard, my cheeks are insanely hollow and my chest has very little fat now, maybe I should try AlphaFour for my next cycle.
    Last edited by Zonz; 05-27-2021 at 12:31 PM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zonz View Post
    I think Low E makes you prone to injury especially when you’re not recovered yet and your bones and joints are still weak.

    Edit: To add, I do suspect that I have low E on UltraHard, my cheeks are insanely hollow and my chest has very little fat now, maybe I should try AlphaFour for my next cycle.
    You could, but usually it'll bring your E up too high, so it's good to have both on hand.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  9. #49
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    Are you Zonz from Propeciahelp too? Were you not having success with St Johns Wort. Wondering whether to add it in to my rotation.

  10. #50
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    I was having success with St Johns Wort because it's an anti androgen. I would take it in the morning and by the afternoon I would feel better as my body "bounces back". But in the long term it got me nowhere in terms of recovery. Some other guy recovered with it apparently. But he took it 2-3 times a day every day like I did. With Caffeine and sun exposure there were moments where I felt 80%, but they were short lived every time. On this protocol I had like 5 days where I felt 60-80% straight when I started UltraHard. So it's a bit better so far, and that's only being on it for 6-7 months.

    I would not reccomend adding St Johns Wort. It's a herb more in line with antidepressants. It's an antiandrogen.

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