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  1. #31
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 xxaleksi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TubZy View Post
    Good feedback. It is interesting to know that a PFS person is doing well on 4 Andro stacked with androsterone. Most of the logs I have seen were all post saw palmetto.

    You are using IML's topical 4 Andro right? I also don't do well on epi either.
    Yeah I've definitely really enjoyed it so far, although I'm only on day 5. The confidence from this stuff is incredible.

    And no, I'm using Alpha Four from iconic. It has 225mg of 4 andro and 100mg of androsterone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    In my experience, if you do not tolerate epi well, you're still going to get the shitty sides despite running the four. I can't take epi solo either. Kills my libido and makes me feel like shit.
    That's a shame. It does the same to me. Deeper voice, increased strength, but no libido and feel kinda sluggish. I wonder why that happens as you would think increasing DHT would make you feel great like androsterone does.

  2. #32
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxaleksi View Post
    Yeah I've definitely really enjoyed it so far, although I'm only on day 5. The confidence from this stuff is incredible.

    And no, I'm using Alpha Four from iconic. It has 225mg of 4 andro and 100mg of androsterone

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    That's a shame. It does the same to me. Deeper voice, increased strength, but no libido and feel kinda sluggish. I wonder why that happens as you would think increasing DHT would make you feel great like androsterone does.
    Duh....forgot about the andro in the four.....you could stack the epi with it as long as you keep it to NO MORE then HALF the androsterone dose. Anything more then that seems to cross some kind of threshold for me.

    We had this convo awhile ago:Differences between R-DHEA and Super Epi DHEA - Page 2
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  3. #33
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TubZy View Post
    Good feedback. It is interesting to know that a PFS person is doing well on 4 Andro stacked with androsterone. Most of the logs I have seen were all post saw palmetto.

    You are using IML's topical 4 Andro right? I also don't do well on epi either.
    I've run this combo a bunch, I know other pfser's have as well with good results.

    It's just depending on where they are in their journey, they just have to be mindful of estrogen while running the four.

    Typically I don't recommend stacking the four until they are well on their way to the promised land. Otherwise it can cause issues. They should have at least two DHT only cycles under their belt along with a nice chunk of time on the protocol. THEN they can run it with success.
    Last edited by Cdsnuts; 03-20-2021 at 08:10 AM.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  4. #34
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    Out of curiosity, do you guys consider gluten free oatmeal to be a pretty healthy carb source?

  5. #35
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    Out of curiosity, do you guys consider gluten free oatmeal to be a pretty healthy carb source?
    Absolutely.

    Oats are very good at lowering SHBG because it contains avena sativa, or rather, this is what they produce avena sativa from.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    Absolutely.

    Oats are very good at lowering SHBG because it contains avena sativa, or rather, this is what they produce avena sativa from.
    Nice, that’s one of my breakfast staples on cycle. I tend to need carbs throughout the day on PH’s or I feel like shit, so I’d rather eat more nutritious carbs

    Also I never knew what SHGB was but saw it on my blood tests like a year and a half ago, I remember it being lower on the spectrum, I always thought that was bad, is that actually a good thing?
    Last edited by Turnover25; 03-20-2021 at 08:59 AM.

  7. #37
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    Nice, that’s one of my breakfast staples on cycle. I tend to need carbs throughout the day on PH’s or I feel like shit, so I’d rather eat more nutritious carbs
    On cycle you can afford to eat carbs first thing in the morning. But you still want to limit them somewhat. You have more leeway when cycling, but you still want to keep to the backloading schedule to get the most out of the cycle. Backloading works even better on cycle.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    On cycle you can afford to eat carbs first thing in the morning. But you still want to limit them somewhat. You have more leeway when cycling, but you still want to keep to the backloading schedule to get the most out of the cycle. Backloading works even better on cycle.
    Thanks, boss. Usually on cycle if I go too long without high GI carbs I get cold, anxious and just feel weird or dizzy. Seems like a blood sugar thing. Fruit doesn’t seem to cut it, and what works best is stuff with high sugar like cookies. But I want to avoid that stuff this time.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    Nice, that’s one of my breakfast staples on cycle. I tend to need carbs throughout the day on PH’s or I feel like shit, so I’d rather eat more nutritious carbs

    Also I never knew what SHGB was but saw it on my blood tests like a year and a half ago, I remember it being lower on the spectrum, I always thought that was bad, is that actually a good thing?
    As I understand it high SHGB goes hand in hand with E dominance. So it being lower would strike me as a good thing?

  10. #40
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    Thanks, boss. Usually on cycle if I go too long without high GI carbs I get cold, anxious and just feel weird or dizzy. Seems like a blood sugar thing. Fruit doesn’t seem to cut it, and what works best is stuff with high sugar like cookies. But I want to avoid that stuff this time.
    Do you backload?

    If so, I would eat enough carbs to stave off those blood sugar drops......just enough, through out the day so that when you back load you still get the hit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
    As I understand it high SHGB goes hand in hand with E dominance. So it being lower would strike me as a good thing?
    It is a good thing, correct.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

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