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  1. #1
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    Noir King's Recovery Log

    Decided to finally get this log started. The details about my usage of Saw Palmetto and the initial symptoms can be found in my Introduce Yourself sticky. The summary is that I took SP for about 6.5 months, from Late January 2021 until mid August 2021. I stopped after a few instances of ED and began experiencing most, if not all, of the neurological symptoms shortly thereafter in addition to worsening sexual sides, including plummeting libido. For whatever its worth, my libido oftentimes spiked during my SP use, but never noticeably dipped below normal until maybe near the end of my use.
    You will notice that I focus on sexual and libidinal symptoms more than anything because that is 95% of what I am left with. Despite having the neurological and fatigue symptoms for about 4 months, in addition to an occasionally twitching perineum/brief prostate pains, most all of that has resolved, so unless any of that stuff returns, it is unlikely I will make any mention of them. The reason I said that sexual/libidinal symptoms are 95% of what is left for me to deal with is due to the fact that I still occasionally get a little mentally foggy/physically sluggish towards the end of the day, to a degree that is not normal for me.
    Only other points I'd like to mention are that I am turning 35 this year, but until this experience, have had the same extremely high libido since I was in my late 20s. The sudden drastic downturn coinciding with the SP usage is very clearly correlated to me (and I'm sure nobody here would doubt that). Before all of this, my refractory period was about 5 minutes, and could go 4 rounds with no issue. I live with my fiance, and, trust me, this has been a major disruption to my daily life, despite her being very patient and understanding. Aside from libido, my ED symptoms are premature ejaculation mixed with difficulty achieving and maintaining an erection (great combo, let me tell you). Again, more details about my sexual symptoms can be found in the Introduction sticky.
    My body type is very lean, and moderately muscular.
    A blood test I had done back in December showed Total Test at 650ng/dL, and another thing that stood out was that my LDL was 120 (normal range being 0-105 mg/dL) despite my never eating fried food or even sweets, for years prior to this. Little strange, but maybe not important.
    I plan to use this log primarily to update my progress/setbacks, and to detail any changes to my regimen. I will likely continue to post specific questions in separate posts, but we will see.
    So, to bring everything up to date, my juice feast went from January 2nd until the 9th, and I began herb cycling on the 11th.

    A breakdown of my current regimen is as follows:

    Herbs in the order I have chosen to rotate them (all Lost Empire unless otherwise stated):
    Pine Pollen tincture
    Dopa Mucuna (NOW Foods)
    Gelatinized Black Maca (Nourishing Nutrients)
    Ant Extract
    Schisandra
    Tongkat Ali (2 days in a row)
    Shilajit resin (also sporadically taking it other days when I want an extra kick)
    Tribulus (Arazo brand...bought this months ago, beforfe I was very knowledgeable. Claims 90% saponins, but think I may look for a better one)
    He Shou Wu
    Cordyceps
    Rhodiola
    Ashwagandha
    Butea Superba (SMS brand, recommended by CD)
    Royal Jelly (Y.S. Eco Bee Farms, rec'd by CD)
    I think I am going to take a cue from Maxout and sprinkly in Royal Jelly 2-3 times a week with herbs I think are less powerful, and have my Shilajit day be a combo of Shilajit and Royal Jelly

    Workouts:
    Every other day I do a full body workout, about 1.5-1.75 hours total. I'm not doing super heavy lifting 5x5 workouts, but will maybe work up to that in the future. I'm a pretty skinny guy despite all the muscle I've been putting on this last year. Still always putting in an extra set or moving up the weight as often as I can, and definitely not stagnating.

    2 x's a week I do HIIT on my bike, 6-8 sprint sessions.

    So, theres 1 or 2 days a week that I use as rest days, wherein no exercises are done aside from maybe pushups/fill-in weights if I'm antsy.

    Diet:
    I've been mostly paleo for years now, but am now 100%. Will be cutting out my pea protein and replacing it with egg white protein soon as I'm done this jar, so that will be the last item to get right. I indulge in white rice, potatoes (sweet and/or regular), and fruit on lifting days despite my not doing heavy 5x5 training. I feel like my body is new to the wight lifting, and considering my lean composition, the workouts I am nonetheless doing are probably still a major advancement for me, so I'm doing the carb loading to get as much as possible out of it. Being lean anyway, I figure it can only help.
    I usually drink either a 16oz or a 32 oz fresh veggie/fruit juice every day, but sometimes skip it.

    Other daily/semi-daily supplements:
    Pine Pollen powder, between 1.5-3 tsp every day
    Arginine/Citrulline, I use both, just making sure I get roughly total 3000 mg a day
    Multivitamin by Naturelo (supposedly all bioavailable forms of vitamins)
    L-Glutamine (now taking this just a couple nights a week)
    L-Tyrosine (anywhere from half to a full serving in morning coffee)
    Gelatin (Grass fed, full serving in morning coffee)
    Sorghum (I grind the grain into flour with my Vitamix and use 30g in a smoothie or made into pancakes daily)
    Vitamin D (between 5-7000 IU's on days I don't get at least 30 minutes of sun)
    Magnesium (Natural Calm brand, I've been buying some old unopened bottles of their magnesium citrate powders, but looks like they switched to using magnesium glyconate or some other form.)
    Was doing fish oil every other day, but down to maybe once a week now.
    -Had a bad reaction to Chlorella and spirulina a few months back when I was still on shaky ground mentally, but am considering reintroducing spirulina at some point.

    Other than that, I'm doing as much cold showering as I can tolerate, given that its winter. I don't let myself go without doing at least 30 seconds under the cold water at the end of the shower, but in any case I am no longer taking HOT or warm showers.
    I've eliminated unnatural hygiene products, and use an olive oil-based Kiss My Face soap to shave. I use the skin brush (and damn it really has resulted in the softest skin I've ever had), and only if I'm going out somewhere do I use a natural deodorant by DoTerra. Natural and simplistic shampoo for hair, occasionally do still use like a pea size drop of my old stuff if I'm going out or etc., but not often.
    Replaced plastic tupperwares with glass, and filter my own water with a Berkey filter, storing it in glass gallon jugs.

    Having said all of that, I hope anyone will feel free to point out something that is inadvisable, as I'm still considering everything a work in progress.

    So far, however, I have seen tremendous improvement in the sexual department, though they don't always stick around. I am starting to get accustomed to improved libido despite its being a fraction of what it once was. It's at least there most of the time, even if its not overwhelming. Occasionally still have a day where its absent, but I really credit the herbs with kicking that back in already. ED symptoms occasionally are somewhere around 90% better, but its not to the point where I can bank on that every time. I can say, however, that compared to a month or 2 ago, there are very distinct advancements being made.
    Basically, I'm looking at this whole thing as an opportunity to not only cure PFS, but the really strong driving force keeping me going is the intention of going far beyond that. Basically, if I were to wake up tomorrow with all of this cured, I would gladly continue on with all of the protocol to see where I can go next. I've totally lost interest in alcohol, which was something I really struggled with before PFS, and now its as though all of my desires to chase a high or a good feeling have been funneled into this health regimen which CD has graciously laid out for us.

    The only last thing I want to mention is that I am planning to get into the pro hormones at some point, but first want to see where the herb cycling takes me. I'm hopeful they alone will get me further than I can imagine, as I already feel pretty strong effects from some of them, and I'm really only just beginning. If, after a few months, I feel like progress has stalled, I will get my bloodwork checked mostly to see where my Estrogen is (since it is claimed to be common for SP sufferers to have low E) so that I can make an informed decision on which PH's would be best for me.

    That's it for now...future posts won't be this involved or lengthy, I promise.

  2. #2
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    ...wanted to add that I forgot to mention the PB8 probiotic in my Daily/Semi-Daily supplements list. Currently taking one in the am and one in the pm every day.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastnoirking87 View Post
    Decided to finally get this log started. The details about my usage of Saw Palmetto and the initial symptoms can be found in my Introduce Yourself sticky. The summary is that I took SP for about 6.5 months, from Late January 2021 until mid August 2021. I stopped after a few instances of ED and began experiencing most, if not all, of the neurological symptoms shortly thereafter in addition to worsening sexual sides, including plummeting libido. For whatever its worth, my libido oftentimes spiked during my SP use, but never noticeably dipped below normal until maybe near the end of my use.
    You will notice that I focus on sexual and libidinal symptoms more than anything because that is 95% of what I am left with. Despite having the neurological and fatigue symptoms for about 4 months, in addition to an occasionally twitching perineum/brief prostate pains, most all of that has resolved, so unless any of that stuff returns, it is unlikely I will make any mention of them. The reason I said that sexual/libidinal symptoms are 95% of what is left for me to deal with is due to the fact that I still occasionally get a little mentally foggy/physically sluggish towards the end of the day, to a degree that is not normal for me.
    Only other points I'd like to mention are that I am turning 35 this year, but until this experience, have had the same extremely high libido since I was in my late 20s. The sudden drastic downturn coinciding with the SP usage is very clearly correlated to me (and I'm sure nobody here would doubt that). Before all of this, my refractory period was about 5 minutes, and could go 4 rounds with no issue. I live with my fiance, and, trust me, this has been a major disruption to my daily life, despite her being very patient and understanding. Aside from libido, my ED symptoms are premature ejaculation mixed with difficulty achieving and maintaining an erection (great combo, let me tell you). Again, more details about my sexual symptoms can be found in the Introduction sticky.
    My body type is very lean, and moderately muscular.
    A blood test I had done back in December showed Total Test at 650ng/dL, and another thing that stood out was that my LDL was 120 (normal range being 0-105 mg/dL) despite my never eating fried food or even sweets, for years prior to this. Little strange, but maybe not important.
    I plan to use this log primarily to update my progress/setbacks, and to detail any changes to my regimen. I will likely continue to post specific questions in separate posts, but we will see.
    So, to bring everything up to date, my juice feast went from January 2nd until the 9th, and I began herb cycling on the 11th.

    A breakdown of my current regimen is as follows:

    Herbs in the order I have chosen to rotate them (all Lost Empire unless otherwise stated):
    Pine Pollen tincture
    Dopa Mucuna (NOW Foods)
    Gelatinized Black Maca (Nourishing Nutrients)
    Ant Extract
    Schisandra
    Tongkat Ali (2 days in a row)
    Shilajit resin (also sporadically taking it other days when I want an extra kick)
    Tribulus (Arazo brand...bought this months ago, beforfe I was very knowledgeable. Claims 90% saponins, but think I may look for a better one)
    He Shou Wu
    Cordyceps
    Rhodiola
    Ashwagandha
    Butea Superba (SMS brand, recommended by CD)
    Royal Jelly (Y.S. Eco Bee Farms, rec'd by CD)
    I think I am going to take a cue from Maxout and sprinkly in Royal Jelly 2-3 times a week with herbs I think are less powerful, and have my Shilajit day be a combo of Shilajit and Royal Jelly

    Workouts:
    Every other day I do a full body workout, about 1.5-1.75 hours total. I'm not doing super heavy lifting 5x5 workouts, but will maybe work up to that in the future. I'm a pretty skinny guy despite all the muscle I've been putting on this last year. Still always putting in an extra set or moving up the weight as often as I can, and definitely not stagnating.

    2 x's a week I do HIIT on my bike, 6-8 sprint sessions.

    So, theres 1 or 2 days a week that I use as rest days, wherein no exercises are done aside from maybe pushups/fill-in weights if I'm antsy.

    Diet:
    I've been mostly paleo for years now, but am now 100%. Will be cutting out my pea protein and replacing it with egg white protein soon as I'm done this jar, so that will be the last item to get right. I indulge in white rice, potatoes (sweet and/or regular), and fruit on lifting days despite my not doing heavy 5x5 training. I feel like my body is new to the wight lifting, and considering my lean composition, the workouts I am nonetheless doing are probably still a major advancement for me, so I'm doing the carb loading to get as much as possible out of it. Being lean anyway, I figure it can only help.
    I usually drink either a 16oz or a 32 oz fresh veggie/fruit juice every day, but sometimes skip it.

    Other daily/semi-daily supplements:
    Pine Pollen powder, between 1.5-3 tsp every day
    Arginine/Citrulline, I use both, just making sure I get roughly total 3000 mg a day
    Multivitamin by Naturelo (supposedly all bioavailable forms of vitamins)
    L-Glutamine (now taking this just a couple nights a week)
    L-Tyrosine (anywhere from half to a full serving in morning coffee)
    Gelatin (Grass fed, full serving in morning coffee)
    Sorghum (I grind the grain into flour with my Vitamix and use 30g in a smoothie or made into pancakes daily)
    Vitamin D (between 5-7000 IU's on days I don't get at least 30 minutes of sun)
    Magnesium (Natural Calm brand, I've been buying some old unopened bottles of their magnesium citrate powders, but looks like they switched to using magnesium glyconate or some other form.)
    Was doing fish oil every other day, but down to maybe once a week now.
    -Had a bad reaction to Chlorella and spirulina a few months back when I was still on shaky ground mentally, but am considering reintroducing spirulina at some point.

    Other than that, I'm doing as much cold showering as I can tolerate, given that its winter. I don't let myself go without doing at least 30 seconds under the cold water at the end of the shower, but in any case I am no longer taking HOT or warm showers.
    I've eliminated unnatural hygiene products, and use an olive oil-based Kiss My Face soap to shave. I use the skin brush (and damn it really has resulted in the softest skin I've ever had), and only if I'm going out somewhere do I use a natural deodorant by DoTerra. Natural and simplistic shampoo for hair, occasionally do still use like a pea size drop of my old stuff if I'm going out or etc., but not often.
    Replaced plastic tupperwares with glass, and filter my own water with a Berkey filter, storing it in glass gallon jugs.

    Having said all of that, I hope anyone will feel free to point out something that is inadvisable, as I'm still considering everything a work in progress.

    So far, however, I have seen tremendous improvement in the sexual department, though they don't always stick around. I am starting to get accustomed to improved libido despite its being a fraction of what it once was. It's at least there most of the time, even if its not overwhelming. Occasionally still have a day where its absent, but I really credit the herbs with kicking that back in already. ED symptoms occasionally are somewhere around 90% better, but its not to the point where I can bank on that every time. I can say, however, that compared to a month or 2 ago, there are very distinct advancements being made.
    Basically, I'm looking at this whole thing as an opportunity to not only cure PFS, but the really strong driving force keeping me going is the intention of going far beyond that. Basically, if I were to wake up tomorrow with all of this cured, I would gladly continue on with all of the protocol to see where I can go next. I've totally lost interest in alcohol, which was something I really struggled with before PFS, and now its as though all of my desires to chase a high or a good feeling have been funneled into this health regimen which CD has graciously laid out for us.

    The only last thing I want to mention is that I am planning to get into the pro hormones at some point, but first want to see where the herb cycling takes me. I'm hopeful they alone will get me further than I can imagine, as I already feel pretty strong effects from some of them, and I'm really only just beginning. If, after a few months, I feel like progress has stalled, I will get my bloodwork checked mostly to see where my Estrogen is (since it is claimed to be common for SP sufferers to have low E) so that I can make an informed decision on which PH's would be best for me.

    That's it for now...future posts won't be this involved or lengthy, I promise.
    It looks like your well on your way! I might of missed it but have you been using the penis pump ? I recently started using the Bathmate and I actually have been enjoying the feeling when using it lol

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by AltRoute View Post
    It looks like your well on your way! I might of missed it but have you been using the penis pump ? I recently started using the Bathmate and I actually have been enjoying the feeling when using it lol
    No, actually, although I don't know why I'm not. I think, being still so early on in this, I have this tendency to get a bit over-optimistic about progress when I have improved sexual functioning, but I have got to really wrap my head around the fact that this is going to ebb and flow most likely for quite some time to come. A part of me keeps thinking it will stick, basically. Anyhow, the pump is on my to-do list for sure.

  5. #5
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    Hello downswing. Long time no see. Wel over a month in fact. Noticed while weightlifting that I wasnt firing on all cylinders. Half way through post workout meal, appetite completely disappears, brain goes foggy. It's a major task to even put the food back in the fridge, as al I can think to do is lay down due to extreme fatigue and anxiety. Kind of forgot what this shit felt like. Just a note to self.

  6. #6
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    ...also a recurring symptom of these mini-crashes, or downswings is I notice my optimism vanishes. I felt a few pessimistic intrusive thoughts about my situation trying to creep in the last couple of days for the first time in a long time. Maybe it's something to be on the lookout for in the future as it may signal impending downswing.

  7. #7
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    Cold shower and meditation in the dark for an hour, and it's like nothing happened. Woke up today totally back to normal positivity. Future reference

  8. #8
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    Noticing these past 2 days my energy is more like it used to be, or maybe even better: full force all day up until I go to sleep. I'm doing pushups throughout the day and night just because I have the energy and desire to. Have felt as close to 100% normal as I can recall feeling in the last 6 months these last 2 days on all fronts- mentally (100%), physically (110%), sexually (90-95%) . Ive had a few short lived glimpses of this total normalcy the past few months, but one aspect or another would always fade within a couple of hours. This has been consistent full body (near-) normalcy for 2, going on 3, days straight, and that is something to be celebrated.
    Intriguing that this is coming right on the heels of the previous anxiety episode I thought was going to be the start of a prolonged downswing. I've noticed quite a few times since this all started that I always feel the worst right before I feel the best (up to that point anyway), but none of the previous pendulum swings have compared to this.
    My body is really responding to the protocol in a visually evident manner. I am beginning to not recognize myself, and honestly, that's fine by me. My fiance is duly pleased with the muscle and sculpting taking place (of course). I credit most of this to the extra lifting stamina afforded by the herbs coupled with backloading and not wavering on any fronts, including dietary (pea protein powder being the only exception- am almost finished that jar and will be using egg white protein from here on out), for a solid month now.
    A switch has officially flipped, and I'm no longer "hoping" and "believing" this will work. I now "know" this will not only cure me, but will shoot me well past whatever degree of being I was at before. That thought has autonomously planted itself in my mind now, and it is there growing roots and strength to withstand any future doubts or fears. I've begun to see the pre-PFS me not as something to work back to, but as something to transcend. This is a pivotal paradigm shift for me.
    I've begun a quick cold shower rinse (30 seconds now, building up to 1 minute) first thing when I wake up in the morning, in addition to later in the day, and can't see me dropping this twice a day routine now that I've tasted its fruits.
    In other news, my fiance has been inspired to take back up her fitness and health food practices in response to seeing me do TMO work day in and day out.
    I know this seeming homeostasis can fluctuate or crumble at any time, but the psychological and viewpoint shifts that have occured as a result of this uptick will be there to remind me to push forward no matter what.

  9. #9
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Good job.

    Keep at it. Always.

    You will go past what you thought was possible. That's when the fun starts. Beating PFS is just the BEGINNING of this journey. Believe me. It get's pretty fucking amazing.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    Good job.

    Keep at it. Always.

    You will go past what you thought was possible. That's when the fun starts. Beating PFS is just the BEGINNING of this journey. Believe me. It get's pretty fucking amazing.
    Thanks for what you do, CD. I can never leave this path now, recovered or not. This feels too "right."

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