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  1. #1
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    Crashed from Panax Ginseng after being nearly recovered

    Hi all, I haven't posted on here in a long time.
    I originally crashed from propecia back in late 2019 and had a whole host of symptoms that you can read in my member story. I was particularly messed up by physical symptoms and had muscle wastage, fat loss, particularly in face and neck. I mostly recovered these symptoms just with time and looked healthy for the last year and a half and was living a more or less normal life and started to think less about PFS.

    I still had slight ED so I took a few doses of 300mg panax ginseng (which I had no idea was a 5ARI like propecia, I'm a complete idiot for not doing my research) a few weeks ago and stopped cause of ball ache. Over the last week I've had a full on crash. I'm still experiencing muscle twitches all over (especially on my nose), ear clogging, face pain, jaw ache, upset stomach/digestion, dead penis. But my main issue is I've had crazy muscle wastage in the last few days. My neck, shoulders, arms, butt have all gotten softer and have what almost feels like holes of no muscle in parts of them.

    My face in particular has gotten ravaged, just like it did after propecia. My eyes are sunken with dark circles, my cheeks and jaw smaller, and somehow even my NOSE has lost muscle/fat.
    No brain fog, I can still get hard with manipulation, no anhedonia, just these crazy physical symptoms.

    I had no idea panax ginseng was a 5ari, and even if it is how could it do this much damage after just a few doses?
    Should I expect this to get better since I recovered from my first crash and ginseng isn't as strong? How bad is this going to get? I'm at a complete loss and this is ruining my mental health and semester at college. I would really appreciate some help and words of advice. Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Hey Ethan, I’m sorry to hear that you had this awful setback, man.

    In terms of the strength of DHT blockers, here’s the order:

    Dutasteride: 84% DHT reduction
    Finasteride: 70% DHT reduction
    Saw Palmetto: 50% DHT reduction
    Panax Ginseng: about 15-20% DHT reduction

    So it’s a lot weaker than finasteride, but still pretty strong, especially for someone with a history of PFS or who currently has PFS.

    As for how could it do so much damage after just a few doses, that’s just how PFS is sometimes. There are guys who got PFS from one finasteride pill, or a few doses of saw palmetto. Others take dutasteride for 20 years and somehow don’t get affected. It’s Russian roulette, but the more powerful the DHT blocker, the more likely it is to cause PFS.

    You said you were mostly recovered, but you’re not fully recovered, so it’s easy for things to collapse. If you’d never had PFS, I doubt the ginseng would cause it, but when you’re incompletely recovered from PFS, it’s like falling back down into the well. So you gotta climb back out again.

    You will get better by following the CDsnuts protocol, for sure. If you follow it, you’ll see improvements again and get back to where you were, and even to full recovery this time.

    This board is mostly quiet now, but there’s still a handful of us. Feel free to post if you want. Anyway, I believe in you. You got this!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by LetsGo View Post
    Hey Ethan, I’m sorry to hear that you had this awful setback, man.

    In terms of the strength of DHT blockers, here’s the order:

    Dutasteride: 84% DHT reduction
    Finasteride: 70% DHT reduction
    Saw Palmetto: 50% DHT reduction
    Panax Ginseng: about 15-20% DHT reduction

    So it’s a lot weaker than finasteride, but still pretty strong, especially for someone with a history of PFS or who currently has PFS.

    As for how could it do so much damage after just a few doses, that’s just how PFS is sometimes. There are guys who got PFS from one finasteride pill, or a few doses of saw palmetto. Others take dutasteride for 20 years and somehow don’t get affected. It’s Russian roulette, but the more powerful the DHT blocker, the more likely it is to cause PFS.

    You said you were mostly recovered, but you’re not fully recovered, so it’s easy for things to collapse. If you’d never had PFS, I doubt the ginseng would cause it, but when you’re incompletely recovered from PFS, it’s like falling back down into the well. So you gotta climb back out again.

    You will get better by following the CDsnuts protocol, for sure. If you follow it, you’ll see improvements again and get back to where you were, and even to full recovery this time.

    This board is mostly quiet now, but there’s still a handful of us. Feel free to post if you want. Anyway, I believe in you. You got this!
    Thanks for the reply man. I'm just worried because I have some new symptoms that I didn't have the first time. Like when I flex my right bicep I can push my finger into it and feel an indent, as if its play doh. Its super freaky and I cant find another case of it on this site.

    Do you think its too soon to start cycling herbs? Should I wait a few weeks since I just crashed or can I just hop into it.

  4. #4
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    Hey mate, I am one of rhe very unlucky ones who got pfs from a single dose of saw palmetto. Iam doing much much better than I used to be obviously not cured yet. Regarding your muscle wastage in your bicep, I had the same issue on my bicep and thigh, where there is a proper indent of muscle missing. This happened in my crash.
    My indent has recovered quite a lot in my bicep and fully in thigh. I do go to gym 6 days a week though.
    Interestingly I was about to ginseng last week and actually brought a bottle from the pharmacy. I did a bit of research on my phone while in the car and saw that it's a 5ari so didn't take. I am considering myself to be very lucky cause I seem to be very susceptible to 5ari.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexus9987 View Post
    Hey mate, I am one of rhe very unlucky ones who got pfs from a single dose of saw palmetto. Iam doing much much better than I used to be obviously not cured yet. Regarding your muscle wastage in your bicep, I had the same issue on my bicep and thigh, where there is a proper indent of muscle missing. This happened in my crash.
    My indent has recovered quite a lot in my bicep and fully in thigh. I do go to gym 6 days a week though.
    Interestingly I was about to ginseng last week and actually brought a bottle from the pharmacy. I did a bit of research on my phone while in the car and saw that it's a 5ari so didn't take. I am considering myself to be very lucky cause I seem to be very susceptible to 5ari.
    Hey man thanks for the reply. Just curious did you also have any indents/fat wastage in your face? And like twitching and aches all over?

    Yeah man I can’t believe I didn’t do my research on it, i just had gotten so comfortable that I didn’t see some tiny little supplement as something that could crash me so hard. I’m physically worse than I was from propecia

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanrecovering View Post
    Thanks for the reply man. I'm just worried because I have some new symptoms that I didn't have the first time. Like when I flex my right bicep I can push my finger into it and feel an indent, as if its play doh. Its super freaky and I cant find another case of it on this site.

    Do you think its too soon to start cycling herbs? Should I wait a few weeks since I just crashed or can I just hop into it.
    There have been many guys with PFS reporting “muscle wasting” which sounds like what you’re experiencing, unfortunately. I never got that symptom personally, but you will be able to recover from it.

    If you’ve never done the full protocol before, you should do the medically supervised fast or at least a juice feast, for at least 1 week in a row.

    You don’t take the herbs during a fast or juice feast, or (later on) if you use prohormones. Other than that, you cycle the herbs all the time, as soon as you can.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by LetsGo View Post
    There have been many guys with PFS reporting “muscle wasting” which sounds like what you’re experiencing, unfortunately. I never got that symptom personally, but you will be able to recover from it.

    If you’ve never done the full protocol before, you should do the medically supervised fast or at least a juice feast, for at least 1 week in a row.

    You don’t take the herbs during a fast or juice feast, or (later on) if you use prohormones. Other than that, you cycle the herbs all the time, as soon as you can.
    I tried a juice feast once but by day three the pain was so bad and I was so weak. I'm also only 127 pounds at 5'11. I dont know if id be able to live my week out at college if I did that. Does the protocol still work without it?
    Last edited by ethanrecovering; 02-19-2023 at 12:22 AM.

  8. #8
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    Something weird to note is sexually and mentally I'm not affected differently after this crash. Mentally I'm fine and sexually I have the same mild ED/weaker erections as before. Its all muscle mushiness, wastage, and facial thinning from this crash.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanrecovering View Post
    Something weird to note is sexually and mentally I'm not affected differently after this crash. Mentally I'm fine and sexually I have the same mild ED/weaker erections as before. Its all muscle mushiness, wastage, and facial thinning from this crash.
    You will recover this!
    But you need to ease your mind, stop stressing and believe. I greatly believe in the Theory behind the posts from English that it’s our mind that keeps us trapped in this state. Fix your mind and fix yourself.
    Read the book You are the Placebo. Once you expel the fear and replace that emotion with positivity and belief you are greatly on your way.
    All the best buddy!

  10. #10
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    Think critically.

    Everyone with pfs just laps up any old shite said by guys who got lucky. I'd include myself in that regretfully until too late.

    You dont need to read a book because some giy who recovered from mild to moderate pfs told you too.

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