maybe the dark side???

[Biggyp]

well i would really like to get some feedback on this one, ive done my share of ph/ds cycles all with good results but i have really been thinking about trying real gear, im only interested in orals, i have a few reasons why no pins mainly being i have a big open family it would be to hard to hide the pins! im 40+ so not a noobie in training ,diet ,supps,etc. but would love to hear which orals are preferred (cycle length and dose) and whether for first run do a standalone or a stack . im liking t bol at the moment but there is alot of knowledge on this board like to pick your brains!lol im not asking for somebody to do my homework for me but to steer me in a direction to do my own research,thanks in advance

[DJM]

var or tbol
8wks @ 50mg

[Biggyp]

does this require 2 wk preload like i did for m -drol,(liver care and cycle assist)

[DJM]

i wouldnt bother, either at that dose shouldnt do too much liver wise unless one is predisposed
id go so far as to say with the var, liver support isnt needed, more so fish oil for cholesterol

[Biggyp]

How do u think muscle retention will be for one like that? With proper pct protocol of course .

[DJM]

good, both provide very clean gains, tbol more than var.........assuming of course everything else is in order

neither are very cheap, but you pay for what you get, they are excellent at what they do without sacrificing one's health

[Scope75]

i wouldnt bother, either at that dose shouldnt do too much liver wise unless one is predisposed
id go so far as to say with the var, liver support isnt needed, more so fish oil for cholesterol

This next year when I run a cycle of test, dbol, and var all ill be taking is fish oil, lots of greens, water, and a few other basic supps.
I'll be getting bloods done pre cycle, post dbol/pre var, post cycle, and post PCT and probably another test 4 weeks after that one just to make sure everything is all good. With insurance all those test should be no more than 150 bucks.
Bloods bloods bloods!!! Get them and you'll know what's really going on.

[DJM]

^^^^i can imagine dbol elevating liver enzymes somewhat, but if dosed reasonably, 30-40mg for 4-5wks, i dont see how it can be that bad, unless the user has a weak liver and / or has beaten it up good

im really not sold on all the supports stuff, based upon usage, personal experience and bloods

truthfully i have 2 bottles of aegis here, from hts, and used them more as a cleansing type thing, i used tren and a few orals like var and dbol this year, and thought what the hell, i had money to burn more than anything

[Scope75]

^^^^i can imagine dbol elevating liver enzymes somewhat, but if dosed reasonably, 30-40mg for 4-5wks, i dont see how it can be that bad, unless the user has a weak liver and / or has beaten it up good

im really not sold on all the supports stuff, based upon usage, personal experience and bloods

truthfully i have 2 bottles of aegis here, from hts, and used them more as a cleansing type thing, i used tren and a few orals like var and dbol this year, and thought what the hell, i had money to burn more than anything

Only reason ill be getting so much bloods done is its my first cycle, I want to know and its not going to cost much.
After I find out how my body and organs react I won't get as many done maybe just pre and post.
All run supports until I run out of what I have and will oh use them during the orals.
No point in spending a grip of extra cash if its really not needed.
Plus I don't drink, party, and try to live a healthy lifestyle so I should be less likely to have problems but that's all just speculation and I'll be more than reedy for any problems that may pop up.

[xxiv]

I expected this thread to be about vegetarianism....... still not a bad topic though.

to the op, my first suggestion would be to get bloods done and know where you stand, if you are having trouble making and maintaining gains there may be a reason.
If you are looking for a little boost it may turn out that it may be a simple case of finding the right Dr.