3-6 months of daily dose 25 mg Clomid doubles men's T levels

[BBG]

Daily dose 25 mg Clomid doubles men's T levels

Twenty-five milligrams of clomiphene citrate presents positive effect on treatment of male testosterone deficiency - a prospective study.
Da Ros CT, Averbeck MA.
Source
Centro de Andrologia e Urologia, Porto Alegre, Brazil. daroscarlos@yahoo.com

Abstract

INTRODUCTION:
Male testosterone deficiency is associated with bad sexual function and quality of life (QoL). The aim of this study was to determine whether a daily dose of 25 mg clomiphene citrate (CC) is effective in stimulating the endogenous testosterone production pathway and to address the applicability of this medication as a therapeutic option for symptomatic hypogonadism.

MATERIALS AND METHODS:
This was a prospective study. Men with low sexual desire and testosterone levels (T) below 400 ng/dL were selected to receive CC. Blood samples were obtained to determine baseline measurements of serum T, estradiol, LH, lipid profile and fasting plasma glucose. Each patient was treated with a daily dose of 25 mg CC for at least 3 months. Patients were asked if they experienced any side effects related to the use of CC and if they experienced any improvement in their sexual profile. Paired samples T-test was utilized to analyze responses to therapy.

RESULTS:
Our cohort consisted of 125 men with hypogonadism and low libido. Mean age was 62 years (± 11.1 years). Serum T levels ranged from 309 ng/dL (baseline, mean value) to 642 ng/dL (3 months after CC initiation, mean value) (p < 0.001). Serum cholesterol levels ranged from 197 to 186 mg/dL (p = 0.003). There were no statistically significant differences when comparing pre and post-treatment HDL-Cholesterol, triglycerides, fasting plasma glucose and prolactin. All men reported improvements in the post-treatment QoL scores. No serious adverse events were recorded.

CONCLUSIONS:
The CC was effective in stimulating the endogenous production of testosterone. A lower level of total cholesterol was verified after three months of treatment. This medication should be considered as a therapeutic option for some patients with symptomatic male testosterone deficiency.

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Image courteousy of: http://ergo-log.com/plaatjes/clomid2...tosterone2.gif

[burlyman30]

Interesting study. Not sure about "lifelong" usage, though, and how that affects other things in the body. JeliseJ made mention of this in the TRT thread.

[BBG]

Interesting study. Not sure about "lifelong" usage, though, and how that affects other things in the body. JeliseJ made mention of this in the TRT thread.

I would like to see where they are at 6 months after treatment. And I'd like to see how they would do with a full regimen like 12.5mg aromasin ED, clomid (or toremifene), DAA + whatever other natural supps people have seen to work (Vitamin D, that kind of thing).

If clomid alone can bring these guys from 300+ to 600+, that's saying a lot.

I do agree that we don't know the real long term side effects, but I know in women dosage usually starts at 50mg and goes up to 100mg.

[burlyman30]

The dosage was fairly low in the study, so it was pretty impressive results for that dosing regimen.

There was also a study on Letro for men who were hypogonadal... Apparently it helped to "reset the HTPA" to some degree. In that study, they did find positive results 6 months later.

[Grape Ape]

Isn't 25mg the normal dose, or would you say 50mg is?

Whenever I see someone mebtion going above 50mg and sometime 100mg+, I feel it is obsessive, unnecessary and not too safe.

[BBG]

If I ran clomid, I would run it 50/50/25/25, but I do see people go 100/50/50/25, or similiar dosing. I don't see the need to go to 100mg.

[Jelisej]

25 mg a day is enough, sometimes with more you can get opposite effect- thing with clomid is it blocks receptors in the brain and some other tissues, but it causes build up in other tissues, I think thats one of reasons why people are so emotional on clomid- so AI should be added on top- but it is impossible to tell how much AI to add as on clomid you cant measure E2 levels. Low estrogen levels have a sides as well- especially on the bones.
From anecdotal evidence- it seems that on AI an SERMS majority people get "number" but not the "feeling"- meaning on paper it says that you have 950 ng/dl but you dont have any benefits from it.
Other thing is- manipulation with estrogen in majority people also cant last forever- after some time guys need less AI's to control and lower their estrogen, and usually in the end they end up with both low T and E.

[Haritec]

This was on another board - a summary of chlomiphene studies

Here are some of my findings in brief. Remember, I'm not a doctor or anything. But this is what I make of the studies:


•The most common dose in the studies is a tie for 25 mg Every other day or 50 mg Every other day. Some studies also do 25 mg/day or 50 mg/day.
•Within the doses used in the studies, the results appear to vary little (For example, two studies that prescribed either 25 or 50 mg every other day gave the EXACT same % of total Test improvement as the study that prescribed 25 mg/day in all cases). The average testoterone level post-treatment is about 250% of baseline across the board. Remember, though, that most of the baselines are below normal or low-normal.
•All the studies consistently report that nobody reported any side effects, with the exception of 1 subject in 1 study who reported visual disturbances that went away when he got off of it. Other than that, zero (so well under 1% with any reported sides at all across these studies).
•Studies that included questioning about subjective relief of low-T symptoms (sexuality, energy, etc) yielded good results. Typically these complaints were approximately cut in half with treatment (that is, they were reported half as often after treatment).
•Younger patients tended to have better results than the older ones.
•One study noted that the presence of a varicocele did not influence the results of clomid treatment in their study one way or the other.
•Clomid's results are sustained with prolonged use, with a possible small dip at around the 2 year mark that doesn't look like it goes any lower (this is noted in one long-term study but not the other). A couple of these look at subjects who have used it for years (up to 3 I believe) and the results and lack of sides do not appear to change.
•In none of the studies at any dosage was the Testosterone elevated above the normal range.
•Testosterone can be raised in as little as 1 week. Generally it's accepted that clomid raises things within 4-8 weeks. Results in symptoms may take longer but at least something should happen within that time frame IMO (one study I read about TRT in general marked 3 weeks as the beginning of improvements in symptoms).
•Two of the studies measure Free testosterone (the others use only Total). The results there get are a little confusing. Their numbers are wildly different (the post-treatment Free in one marks the beginning of the pre-treatment in the other). Not sure what's going on there. Maybe I am misunderstanding the units. But it does increase Free T significantly in both studies (at least double on average).

The link has a zip file of the articles themselves

Every Full-Text Clomid Study You've Ever Wanted (also share your experiences!)

[Haritec]

Also came across this statement on another board - unsubstantiated rumor but interesting the claimed results of 12.5 mg EOD

I've been on low dose clomid for almost 5 months. 12.5mg m,w,f. Free test has been staying close to 30. Total test has been ~1100. Basically doubled or better from where I began. Feel great. Getting stronger and much leaner. Best decision I've ever made in terms of health and well being. I believe the key with this drug is it only takes a small amount to trigger an Lh increase.

[BBG]

Also came across this statement on another board - unsubstantiated rumor but interesting the claimed results of 12.5 mg EOD

I've been on low dose clomid for almost 5 months. 12.5mg m,w,f. Free test has been staying close to 30. Total test has been ~1100. Basically doubled or better from where I began. Feel great. Getting stronger and much leaner. Best decision I've ever made in terms of health and well being. I believe the key with this drug is it only takes a small amount to trigger an Lh increase.

Oh I like this. I think torem is a better choice overall as a SERM. Less sides, increasing HDL, increasing bone density, doesn't lower igf-1. So imagine instead of clomid, toremifene.

I wonder what the toxicity is like using maybe 40mg of torem 3-4 times a week.

I mean, damn, 1100 is great. Some guys are taking 150mg a week of test just to hit that level, or even below it. And they are shutting themselves down, having to take shots, AI, hcg, etc.