Vitamin D Discussion

[O.N.]

Yes i was feeling great after 2 weeks on the 5000IU vitamin D i went and did a blood test to confirm how well i was doing, i was surprised that even after being on it for 2 weeks i still had a mild deficiency I hate to imagine what the level was before i started taking vitamin D. Then after 11 weeks the levels are within normal.

Being a fat soluble vitamin a peak should be reached about 6 weeks into using it.

[Freepressright]

This is why doctors need to become more familiar with D3 and start testing patients who come in with thyroid issues or low T. Deficiencies of D3 can have serious hormonal implications, seeing as D3 is a secosteroid.

[Jelisej]

O.N. firstly- its obvious that you have some underlying issues or poor absorption or something else as your vitamin d intake is sky high and moving so slowly up. You need to check your thyroid and adrenals first, especially people with thyroid/autoimmune diseases have that kind of issues with vit d. Also ref ranges are bit demanding in your lab.
One friend of mine does not get enough sun, and has got some isuess and 4000 IU work well for him. Some others supplemeting less and are OK. Tough they have more modest goals than you guys.
As for different studies; I'll copy-paste some results and some summaries from Wiki:

"A review of vitamin D in Africa[50] gives the median levels for equatorial countries: Kenya 65.5 nmol/L and Democratic Republic of the Congo 65nmol/L"

"Vitamin D levels are approximately 30% higher in northern Europe than in central and southern Europe; higher vitamin D concentrations in northern countries may have a genetic basis.[51][52] In a meta-analysis of cross-sectional studies on serum 25(OH)D concentrations globally the levels averaged 54 nmol/l and were higher in women than men, and higher in Caucasians than in non-Caucasians."

"A study of highly sun-exposed (tanned) healthy young skateboarders and surfers in Hawaii found levels below the proposed higher minimum of 30 ng/ml in 51% of the subjects. The highest 25(OH)D concentration was around 60 ng/ml (150nmol/L)"

A 2005 metastudy found correlations between serum levels of vitamin D and cancer, drawing from a meta-analysis of 63 observational studies of vitamin D status. The authors suggested that intake of an additional 1,000 international units (IU) (or 25 micrograms) of vitamin D daily reduced an individual's colon cancer risk by 50%, and breast and ovarian cancer risks by 30%-
The Role of Vitamin D in Cancer Prevention Elsevier

2006 study found that taking the U.S. RDA of vitamin D (400 IU per day) cut the risk of pancreatic cancer by 43% in a sample of more than 120,000 people from two long-term health surveys. Vitamin D Intake and the Risk for Pancreatic Cancer in Two Cohort Studies
This is study posted by H2S earlier on some other thread in which dose of bit over 3000 IU was sufficient to raise tt levels:
Effect of vitamin D supplementation on testos... [Horm Metab Res. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

As you can notice all dosages were rather low compared to your daily intake.

[Jelisej]

Also there is this excellent post by our genious Infamy on other thread:

On the topic of vitamin d, although I don't doubt it's necessity in steroidogenesis, I would be very cautious on using high dose vit d on a steroid cycle.

The reason I say this is that I was interested in the effects of steroids and potential kidney damage. Although there is little to suggest that an otherwise healthy person drinking plenty of water should get kidney damage on steroids directly, there are indirect pathways by which the steroids can contribute to kidney damage.

One is via excess vit d. Vitamin d increases calcium absorption. Unfotunately most steroids (tren, test, deca) increase mineral and water retention (remember that water retention is not solely related to extra cellular water retention but in the case of steroids like tren, intra cellular water retention making the muscles look bigger and fuller).

So the combination of steroids plus excess vit d leads to increased calcium in the body. Even if dietary intake is within the normal rda (usually touted to be 1 gram per day). Calcium is excreted via the kidneys and too much calcium leads to blockages and kidney stones. Even without the formation of kidney stones a high calcium level can cause kidney damage. Although sometimes this damage is reversible, sometimes it isnt. The effect is exacerbated for those taking multivitamins as they tend to have doses of minerals way in excess of what you need. Off cycle this is a problem, on cycle this is dangerous.

This could be one of the mechanisms by which tren can cause kidney toxicity (along with high bp, inadequate water intake etc).

A words of warning to those that believe cranberry extract can help. It doesn't and perversely makes things worse. Cranberry extract is high in oxalate which in turn can increase the risk of kidney stones.

There is another route for kidney damage related to a genetic condition whereby a missing gene coding for a particular enzyme responsible for glucordination amongst other things leaves high levels of toxic by products onthe kidneys to be filtered and causes kidney damage. I've included this comment for completeness but it was this vitaminosis of vit d which I wanted to warn people of.

As a rule, on cycle, I would use little to no vit d and use multi vitamins very sparingly - certainly not every day.

Bear in mind off cycle high vit d intake will also cause kidney problems although there will be more tolerance to it without steroids in the system.

[Grape Ape]

J, have you never cycled?

[Macdon1588]

My gf was just given a prescription for a 50,000IU dose of vitamin D to be taken once a week for 8 weeks. I had to read the prescription a few times to accept that a dosage that high was being recommended by a doctor.

That's an interesting dosage. I seem remember reading something over at http://www.charlespoliquin.com that stated that taking one large of vitamin D once a week seemed to work better for raising levels than a daily dosage. I am considering taking it like that. I'm a shift worker so I consider D an essential supplement and ever since getting my shit blood work back, I've been religious about taking it.

[Freepressright]

I know a woman who went recently to an endo who put her on a dose of 50,000 IUs once a week. There is validity to it.

[Coolazice]

That's an interesting dosage. I seem remember reading something over at Charles Poliquin strength and fitness training certification and nutrition supplements for a healthy life that stated that taking one large of vitamin D once a week seemed to work better for raising levels than a daily dosage. I am considering taking it like that. I'm a shift worker so I consider D an essential supplement and ever since getting my shit blood work back, I've been religious about taking it.

I'll have to look into that since the doctor didn't take the time to explain or even talk to my gf about that dosage.

I know a woman who went recently to an endo who put her on a dose of 50,000 IUs once a week. There is validity to it.

Did it have anything to do with her Thyroid?

[O.N.]

O.N. firstly- its obvious that you have some underlying issues or poor absorption or something else as your vitamin d intake is sky high and moving so slowly up. You need to check your thyroid and adrenals first, especially people with thyroid/autoimmune diseases have that kind of issues with vit d. Also ref ranges are bit demanding in your lab.

I work in doors almost 24/7 do not get much sun at all thats why the levels were so low. They did climb very quickly imo, 11 weeks from a mild deficiency to now well within range is a great result i wouldn't say there is any absorption issues, as for thyroid and adrenals and testosterone everything functions normally, within range and testosterone is very high.

[pman42]

O.N. firstly- its obvious that you have some underlying issues or poor absorption or something else as your vitamin d intake is sky high and moving so slowly up. You need to check your thyroid and adrenals first, especially people with thyroid/autoimmune diseases have that kind of issues with vit d. Also ref ranges are bit demanding in your lab.

Again I am questioning the idea that 5000 Iu is "sky high". Also, what is your assertion that the adrenals and thyroid need checking? vitamin D is processed in the kidneys, so a lack of 25(OH)D3 in the blood would mean either lack of dietary D3 or malfunctioning kidney.

In light of some of the info you posted, I may be altering my optimal blood levels a bit. It appears, for example, that the Masai have blood levels of average 119 nmol/L, so this might be round about 'ideal'. although the study you cited said that adults will need 1800-4000 IU to get to 75-110 nmol/L. so I still see most adults as benefiting from doses in the multi 1000 range. and more bodyweight = more need for vitamin D.

there are studies showing D-deficient people living near equatorial regions. there are many factors to consider. glass, office or car, will block synthesis, as will clothing and sunscreen. so in the end it makes sense to me to take physiologically normal amounts of vitamin D