PP raid was fake????

[h2s]

I feel like I should not even have to entertain this question, but I will.

I am still in contact with Eric, and never once did I question the raid.

Many people involved in the company lost their job over the raid, myself included. Granted, I was lucky in that it was a "side-cash" gig for me, and not my 9-5, but for many others, this simply wasn't the case. Eric felt he lost everything he had overnight, Matt Porter lost his job, Jared lost his job, etc...These were the public-facing people of the company. Behind that there was payroll, shipping, product design, etc. etc. etc. etc. All of these people had to decide how they would make their living.

I also had spoken to other "big names" in the industry, who had varying opinions on the how and whys of the raid, but never questioned it being legitimate. One big name even provided a lawyer recommendation with industry experience, and I know Eric contacted this individual, both through confirmation by Eric and the person who recommended the lawyer to me/him. I was also spoken to, very directly, about what questions I might face.

I, unfortunately, do not know the process behind the FDA and the release of reports they make. I know others have questioned this as well, such as Right Hook. It is odd. To me it seemed that the entire investigation was very much misguided or somewhat "winged." I say this as Eric had mentioned he was heavily questioned on what illegal ingredients were being added to Andro- products. As many of you know, and others have seen. Eric had submitted to random FDA testing previously, and passed with flying colors. All of the products were extensively tested, and none of them failed. So why question what was added to the products? They also heavily utilized information on the sale of SD-LV to provide a list of complaints to Eric. It seems this was a "take them down, we will figure out why later" type thing, and from the impression I get from Eric, not only is the investigation still in the "open" stage, he doesn't expect actual court proceedings, assuming it comes to that point for quite some time. Maybe this has something to do with the limited amount of information released, but who really knows.

The fact of the matter is, I owe alot to Eric. ALOT. When I did lose my 9-5 job, and spent months looking for work every day, Eric and the generous position he offered to me is what allowed me and my girlfriend to stay afloat. Sure I had a lot of "Side gigs" I balanced, but at the time they would not have been reliable enough to keep food on my table, but Primordial always was. Anytime I needed something from Eric, and I mean ANYTHING, he was always there for me. People used to question my loyalty, not in a negative sense, but why as a "rep" I cared so much, but Eric gave me every reason to, and I was quite happy to. The point of this is that I have no reason to disbelieve Eric, so unless indisputable evidence were to show otherwise, I would refuse to believe ill intent.

[BBG]

I have to agree with John on this. Primordial was Eric's life work. When you think "blood, sweat and tears", that's exactly what Eric but into Primordial on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly basis. I can imagine Eric making a meager 30 to 40k a year running Primordial Performance and loving every second of it simply because he was so enamored with the supplements he set forth to create.

I have no doubt in time Primordial would have risen from the ashes of a shaky Androseries launch. As reps, John, Rodja, Ryan S, Noa and I really put a lot of time and effort into turning the negative Androseries reception around and making the products known far and wide and some of the greatest and safest PHs to be introduced the market since the original 4/1-ad.

Eric and his crew were and are extremely respectable people and I think it's a shame that the loyal Primordial men and women would think that they would shut down the company simply to avoid paying off loans. The Androseries was JUST starting to really gain a huge crowd. Look at the products now, selling for even more than the full retail price.

I agree with John, unless further evidence is provided that can be backed up with solid proof, I simply have to side with Eric on this one. I knew the man fairly well when I repped for the company and everything I know about him says he was in it for the love of the products he developed. He would have dug out of any hole he was in just to stay in the game.

[DJM]

staring at screen
dont know what to type

[Rulk]

No reason to believe in anything else. I may be biased, but I have a good sense of people when I meet them. I've met many of the crew in person, hung out with them, and to me, they seemed more like a family than a business. Eric would never do this.

[burlyman30]

Spent many many conversations on the phone with Eric over this raid and the resulting fallout. PP had it's troubles, but it was hanging in there and Eric and I were in conversations about the future of PP and his next venture. He was ecstatic about the future, spending quite literally hundreds and hundreds of hours of planning for the next step. He NEEDED PP around for this new vision, as PP was to be funding the new venture. With the end of PP came the end of forward progress for the other project. It crushed him.

Let's shut down the rumor mill, started by people who weren't there, don't know anyone who was there, and are saying things without having any knowledge of the situation.

[Coolazice]

My big questions are:

1. Why are Venus and other companies allowed to make products with identical ingredients and not have anyone go knocking on their door and shutting them down?

2. Why hasn't Eric gone after Venus for her the theft of the "recipes" and the email list? I've been spammed twice now by that crook even though I unsubscribed from "her list" after the first time she spammed me.

[burlyman30]

My big questions are:

1. Why are Venus and other companies allowed to make products with identical ingredients and not have anyone go knocking on their door and shutting them down?

2. Why hasn't Eric gone after Venus for her the theft of the "recipes" and the email list? I've been spammed twice now by that crook even though I unsubscribed from "her list" after the first time she spammed me.

PP wasn't shut down simply because of the Androseries. They had been watching him since he sold 1T Tren and Superdrone, 3 years earlier. So just because someone else is making andro-like products does not mean they will be shut down. One of the most damning pieces of evidence was the label comparisons to a prescription drug (testosterone). Historically, I have seen more supplement companies shut down because of this over anything else. And I'm referring to just health/medical/drug claims of normal nutritional products, not prohormones. Anyway, after 3 years of watching him, they built up a big enough case to do the raid. They still haven't issued a statement saying Androseries products are illegal, nor have they told similar manufactures to cease production. But they aren't making the same drug claims, as far as I know.

Eric hasnt gone after Venus or the guy who started the Alpha products because it just wasn't worth it. I've spoken to him personally over this exact issue, long before the raid happened. There's nothing stopping someone from cloning his products and it's an expensive legal battle when the cash flow just wasn't there. Gaspari never went after all the clones of his halodrol product, either. As far as the email list, I know you're sore about getting spammed by Venus, but it's rarely something that a company would sue over.

[Coolazice]

PP wasn't shut down simply because of the Androseries. They had been watching him since he sold 1T Tren and Superdrone, 3 years earlier. So just because someone else is making andro-like products does not mean they will be shut down. One of the most damning pieces of evidence was the label comparisons to a prescription drug (testosterone). Historically, I have seen more supplement companies shut down because of this over anything else. And I'm referring to just health/medical/drug claims of normal nutritional products, not prohormones. Anyway, after 3 years of watching him, they built up a big enough case to do the raid. They still haven't issued a statement saying Androseries products are illegal, nor have they told similar manufactures to cease production. But they aren't making the same drug claims, as far as I know.

Eric hasnt gone after Venus or the guy who started the Alpha products because it just wasn't worth it. I've spoken to him personally over this exact issue, long before the raid happened. There's nothing stopping someone from cloning his products and it's an expensive legal battle when the cash flow just wasn't there. Gaspari never went after all the clones of his halodrol product, either. As far as the email list, I know you're sore about getting spammed by Venus, but it's rarely something that a company would sue over.

The "drug claims theory" makes sense to me, but it seems odd that they would confiscate (steal) all of his stock and not return it rather than just demand he ceased all sales til product labeling, packaging, advertising, etc was rewritten to their satisfaction.

His stuff wasn't just cloned though. She stole intellectual properties that belonged to the company (Eric) and probably the exact recipes he used to make everything. I understand a company isn't likely to get sued for spamming, but what about theft? Btw, who is the guy she is in cahoots with, since you brought it up?

[burlyman30]

If Eric wanted to shut the doors or couldn't afford to keep them open, he could have just filed bankruptcy and written a sincere apology letter to his customers. There is zero advantage to making up a false FDA story. As far as the confiscation, what better way to put someone out of business than stealing all their inventory without actually having to tell them to shut their doors. They know exactly what they are doing. They took out the "competition" of their "clients" (Big Pharma).

I wasn't inferring that the guy from Forerunner Labs (producing Alpha Bulk, etc) was or is in cahoots with Venus. But I do know that Eric and he were going to collaborate on some products, had unique knowledge of the Andro products and next thing you know, he was using the same base ingredients (in lower doses) and put his own twist on the delivery system. A year later Venus did the same thing, only worse. They were not working together (to my knowledge), nor had they ever. Separate incidents. Sorry for the confusion.

[Coolazice]

If Eric wanted to shut the doors or couldn't afford to keep them open, he could have just filed bankruptcy and written a sincere apology letter to his customers. There is zero advantage to making up a false FDA story. As far as the confiscation, what better way to put someone out of business than stealing all their inventory without actually having to tell them to shut their doors. They know exactly what they are doing. They took out the "competition" of their "clients" (Big Pharma).

I wasn't inferring that the guy from Forerunner Labs (producing Alpha Bulk, etc) was or is in cahoots with Venus. But I do know that Eric and he were going to collaborate on some products, had unique knowledge of the Andro products and next thing you know, he was using the same base ingredients (in lower doses) and put his own twist on the delivery system. A year later Venus did the same thing, only worse. They were not working together (to my knowledge), nor had they ever. Separate incidents. Sorry for the confusion.

You bring up good points (as usual). Big Pharma is the most likely the cause of all this and has been my first choice in logical explanations since the raid happened, but conspiracy theories are fun to play with too.

The misunderstanding was all mine. I wasn't thinking Forerunner Labs at all and was just thinking that the plot was thickening on how Venus got this all off the ground. It doesn't help that "Fred" was the name of the guy who sent the spam out.