Calorie deficit with tren

[burlyman30]

Not totally sure. Possibly fat -> estrone -> estradiol, possibly upregulating aromatase. Either way there was a study showing a direct relationship between tren dose and estrogen increase. I can't post the study as in on iPhone.

The estrogen is definitely dose dependant which is probably why burly gets no gyno at low doses.

And burly, you used 150mg a day of anadrol?!! You the man!

First time I used it, I did a week at 50, 2 weeks at 100, then a week at 150 when I thought my head was going to literally explode but I (stupidly) toughed it out and then went back to 100 for the rest of the cycle until tapering down (everybody tapered down in the 80s).

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Haha

x2. Nicely played, D.

[Infamy]

First time I used it, I did a week at 50, 2 weeks at 100, then a week at 150 when I thought my head was going to literally explode but I (stupidly) toughed it out and then went back to 100 for the rest of the cycle until tapering down (everybody tapered down in the 80s).

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You know it's interesting you say that because recently i've been looking at the liver toxicity of the "standard" orals, winstol, anavar, anadrol, dbol etc and found something unexpected.

My interest started after I did 2 weeks of winstrol at 80mg a day. I had my liver function done a week or so after finishing it. I used no liver support between finishing it and the liver function test. The result I was fully expecting was one of a large increase in the transaminases and a real messed up liver function. It was, after all 80mg of what many of the "bro" websites claim to be extremely hepatotoxic steroid. Instead, my liver enzymes were barely above the upper limit of normal (I think it was 58 with the Upper limit of normal being 50). Not only that but I couldnt be 100% sure that the winstrol even caused all of that as I had been using tren A and masteron. Both of which may in some people raise liver enzymes slightly. To avoid doubt, the winstrol was definitely legit!!!

So I did some research. It seems there are almost no reported cases of liver damage or jaundice from winstrol. There was one of a man who had an extreme sensitivity to it but I think he can be discounted as he is definitely the exception rather than the rule.

There was also one of a powerlifter injecting 125mg twice a week for one month. But im inclined to have my doubts over this one due to the fact that the report says he had an "exceptionally muscular physique". Winstrol may be good but it doesnt do that for you so I have reason to believe he takes other things too so I take this with a pinch of salt. Especially when there are so few other reports which show similar results. If that damage was standard after that dose for that long, I would have expected my liver function tests to be terrible. They werent. They were almost normal.

There are also cases of people being prescribed winstrol at 5-10mg a day for years without even causing an increase in liver function tests!! Now I know that dose is well below the BBing dose but even so it's interesting.

Furthermore, bear in mind that winstrol has been around and has been abused by bodybuilders for decades so it wouldnt be unexpected to see some sort of reports of liver damage from it. But I couldnt find any which directly related to the winstrol use. There was one of a BBer who did have jaundice from using winstrol but then you cant blame the winstrol solely as he was using dbol at the same time at large doses.

In fact the only evidence I found of real liver damage was when used on liver cells at a dose of 400 times the therapeutic dose which caused large scale damage. But, 400 times the therapeutic dose would be over 200mg a day so again, not really relevant to bbing unless you are trying to kill yourself.

So I went one step further and looked for halotestin (the one which most "bro" sites claim is the most toxic oral ever and if you take it you will die etc etc). Again, very little reports of liver damage. There were a couple but not many considering this has been used and abused for decades. The one I did see was of an old lady prescribed it for over 2 years and died of liver failure but given the length of time she took it for and her age and decreased capacity for removing toxins by the liver, this doesnt translate well to normal bbing usage.

Now compare this to modern designer steroids like superdrol. A quick google search gives you quite a few examples of liver damage. Bear in mind sdrol is probably only 10 years old too!

Now im not trying to say that the traditional orals are safe to take a large doses for life. Undoubtedly if you take them high enough for long enough you will get liver damage, thats a fact. But it seems that some of the traditional ones really arent that liver toxic - especially when compared to the new stuff today which is just crazy toxic (methyl sten, sdrol diendione etc etc). This seems to contradict everything you read on steroid websites I know but dont just take my word for it, take a look for yourself.

Sorry for the thread jack but seemed relevant after burly's post.