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Thread: CD's Natural Testosterone boosting regimen

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookingforhelp View Post
    I had bad effects from saw palmetto.

    I have bought a few of the herbs mentioned from superman herbs. I attempted to use the Tongkat but had major sleep issues on it as well as something I have never experienced before, chronic hives. Literally would break out in hives all over my body and would have to take cold showers to go away.

    I know it was the Tongkat because I tried to introduce it 3 times now with exactly the same symptoms.

    What are peoples favourite herb after Tongkat?

    Being a saw palmetto user I believe the mechanism is slightly different. I have noted others with low estrogen symptoms after AI etc. I have raised SHBG but very low E2 and I cant seem to find anyone else in the situation. Normally SHBG is raised through high estrogen. I have suffered with low e2 symptoms for years now. HCG helped in many ways but did not fix me entirely. It gave me back pre cum and normal looking loads. Better flacid hang but no return of spontaneous erections. It did help libido too.

    I wanted to go the natural route. I cycled off everything and my own production came back with very healthy testosterone levels (675 ng/dl) but higher SHBG and lower E2.
    I am in a bad way since coming off HCG. Feel completely shut down even though my testosterone levels are fairly high. My SHBG is 60 nmol/l however.

    I read that one of Tongkats methods through raising T is lowering E2 hence probably why I felt terrible on it.

    I am desperate to get back my health and have changed everything about my diet and lifestyle for a long time. I appreciate it is all mentioned in the Protocol but I do not wish to take any supplements that can lower estrogens for me even more. A lot of the prohormones are anti E.

    Does anyone have any suggestions for supps that are not so aggressive at lowering aromatase?
    Use herbs rotation. I mean the herbs which do not have anti estrogens action.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by biatch View Post
    Use herbs rotation. I mean the herbs which do not have anti estrogens action.
    Would you mind telling which ones in particular are anti E?

    Is tribulus anti E?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookingforhelp View Post
    Would you mind telling which ones in particular are anti E?

    Is tribulus anti E?
    from what i remember the most anti E is tongkat ali, tribulus should not be.
    I had the same issue as you 5 months ago. I used herbs avoiding the most anti E and my testo rised up so my E also did.
    I also drunk some beers here and there to make estro to rise a bit more, but this is what I did, feeling myself to do it...so do not take it has a medical rule, since I am not.
    Anyway make a research on CDNuts website and read what each herbs do.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookingforhelp View Post
    Would you mind telling which ones in particular are anti E?

    Is tribulus anti E?
    Your best bet is to do some research on each one if this is the angle that you're going to take. You're always good to go with any of the adaptogens...Rhodiola, Eluthero, Cistanche, He Shou Wu, etc.
    Last edited by Cdsnuts; 1 Week Ago at 06:45 PM.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookingforhelp View Post
    I had bad effects from saw palmetto.

    I have bought a few of the herbs mentioned from superman herbs. I attempted to use the Tongkat but had major sleep issues on it as well as something I have never experienced before, chronic hives. Literally would break out in hives all over my body and would have to take cold showers to go away.

    I know it was the Tongkat because I tried to introduce it 3 times now with exactly the same symptoms.

    What are peoples favourite herb after Tongkat?

    Being a saw palmetto user I believe the mechanism is slightly different. I have noted others with low estrogen symptoms after AI etc. I have raised SHBG but very low E2 and I cant seem to find anyone else in the situation. Normally SHBG is raised through high estrogen. I have suffered with low e2 symptoms for years now. HCG helped in many ways but did not fix me entirely. It gave me back pre cum and normal looking loads. Better flacid hang but no return of spontaneous erections. It did help libido too.

    I wanted to go the natural route. I cycled off everything and my own production came back with very healthy testosterone levels (675 ng/dl) but higher SHBG and lower E2.
    I am in a bad way since coming off HCG. Feel completely shut down even though my testosterone levels are fairly high. My SHBG is 60 nmol/l however.

    I read that one of Tongkats methods through raising T is lowering E2 hence probably why I felt terrible on it.

    I am desperate to get back my health and have changed everything about my diet and lifestyle for a long time. I appreciate it is all mentioned in the Protocol but I do not wish to take any supplements that can lower estrogens for me even more. A lot of the prohormones are anti E.

    Does anyone have any suggestions for supps that are not so aggressive at lowering aromatase?
    So....first things first. Have you cleansed? Any kind...water fast, juice feast? Have you attempted to do some house cleaning and start your herb rotation on a clean slate, or did you just do some googling, buy some herbs and start taking them?

    Aside from all of the other reasons mentioned for doing a cleanse before starting this protocol, one of the most very important reasons are, the way the herbs effect you pre-cleanse are not going to be the way they effect you post cleanse. You maybe be getting hives from what the tongkat is doing to or with other things that are in your system right now. Only one way to find out.....cleanse. You're doing yourself a huge disservice by skipping this part, as dreaded as it may be for you.

    If you're "desperate" to get your health back, you need to step back and re-evaluate the way you're approaching this. EVERYTHING in the protocol is there for a specific reason.

    Concerning prohormones, when the time comes, just run DHEA 4 without the DHT. That'll get your estro up.

    With herb rotation, you could add in phytoestrogenic herbs along with the tongkat to buffer the effects of low estrogen. I'm not too familiar with this because I always had high estro during my PFS struggle.
    Last edited by Cdsnuts; 1 Week Ago at 02:12 PM.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookingforhelp View Post
    I had bad effects from saw palmetto.

    I have bought a few of the herbs mentioned from superman herbs. I attempted to use the Tongkat but had major sleep issues on it as well as something I have never experienced before, chronic hives. Literally would break out in hives all over my body and would have to take cold showers to go away.

    I know it was the Tongkat because I tried to introduce it 3 times now with exactly the same symptoms.

    What are peoples favourite herb after Tongkat?

    Being a saw palmetto user I believe the mechanism is slightly different. I have noted others with low estrogen symptoms after AI etc. I have raised SHBG but very low E2 and I cant seem to find anyone else in the situation. Normally SHBG is raised through high estrogen. I have suffered with low e2 symptoms for years now. HCG helped in many ways but did not fix me entirely. It gave me back pre cum and normal looking loads. Better flacid hang but no return of spontaneous erections. It did help libido too.

    I wanted to go the natural route. I cycled off everything and my own production came back with very healthy testosterone levels (675 ng/dl) but higher SHBG and lower E2.
    I am in a bad way since coming off HCG. Feel completely shut down even though my testosterone levels are fairly high. My SHBG is 60 nmol/l however.

    I read that one of Tongkats methods through raising T is lowering E2 hence probably why I felt terrible on it.

    I am desperate to get back my health and have changed everything about my diet and lifestyle for a long time. I appreciate it is all mentioned in the Protocol but I do not wish to take any supplements that can lower estrogens for me even more. A lot of the prohormones are anti E.

    Does anyone have any suggestions for supps that are not so aggressive at lowering aromatase?
    I was also a saw palmetto user, for what it's worth. I used the prohormones, and herbs during my recovery and my E was low at times. If you're looking for a way to use the prohormones without tanking your E, I highly suggest that you try a low dose of 4 Andro with the R-Andro. This will keep you from having any low estrogen issues, as it is a test base. Of course, don't start there. I would do what CD is suggesting first - cleanse, herbs, workout, lifestyle => then use these PHs once you've got a decent base.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    So....first things first. Have you cleansed? Any kind...water fast, juice feast? Have you attempted to do some house cleaning and start your herb rotation on a clean slate, or did you just do some googling, but some herbs and start taking them?

    Aside from all of the other reasons mentioned for doing a cleanse before starting this protocol, one of the most very important reasons are, the way the herbs effect you pre-cleanse are not going to be the way they effect you post cleanse. You maybe be getting hives from what the tongkat is doing to or with other things that are in your system right now. Only one way to find out.....cleanse. You're doing yourself a huge disservice by skipping this part, as dreaded as it may be for you.

    If you're "desperate" to get your health back, you need to step back and re-evaluate the way you're approaching this. EVERYTHING in the protocol is there for a specific reason.

    Concerning prohormones, when the time comes, just run DHEA 4 without the DHT. That'll get your estro up.

    With herb rotation, you could add in phytoestrogenic herbs along with the tongkat to buffer the effects of low estrogen. I'm not too familiar with this because I always had high estro during my PFS struggle.

    Thanks for taking the time to reply.


    Yes I have done a couple of cleanses over the last 3 years. I have not fasted for longer than a week, however, the last three years I have been gluten free, alcohol free, processed foods free. I try to be organic as possible in terms of meats and veg however it is very costly and I have to budget. Saying that I eat generally 75% organic foods most of the time.

    My case is fairly familiar to most finasteride users in that my symptoms really exploded upon becoming very ill with either food poisoning or an insect bite whilst on holiday in Mexico. Its ironic because I went on the holiday as a detox to write myself of all the issues. I was experiencing a bit of ED. Things got 100 times worse once I got ill. I can only explain it as the worst stomach flu in the world.

    I have had numerous testing for parasites and Lyme all coming back negative. The NHS system is rather crap! Upon returning from Mexico, I was hospitalised for a week. I woke up with chest pain and numbness in my arms, went to A&E and they confirmed a heart attack. I was 24. Upon testing, they discovered I had inflammation of the heart. Then I developed prostatitis, then gut inflammation. Now recently I have experienced Uveitis which is inflammation of the eyes.

    I have been tested for numerous autoimmune issues as they are common in my family. They found slightly raised markers for autoimmune issues with my liver. Seeing a Dr next week about it. May explain my high SHBG?

    Anyway, my point being is I have tried so desperately to fix this and I live such a healthy lifestyle other than I do not over do it on the exercise point, not out of laziness, it just makes me crash if I over do it. I basically give my body the best I can. My partner and I own a juice bar so I have 2 or 3 juices a day normally. Sometimes I do intermittent juice fasting as it is meant to be good for you. I also bought a home infared sauna which I use 2 times a week.

    I think a lot of my issues come down to my body fighting something which is halting my recovery! My hips click and crack, my sleep is usually not great, libido is down. The reason I think I have the opposite issues to most propecia users is that high estrogen does not seem to be a problem for me, it's in fact low estrogen that is. HCG whilst on it got rid of the hip issues once it was raised. It also returned my flaccid hang to a much normal state. I cannot seem to find much on the internet regarding high SHBG and low e2. Most supps that lower SHBG is by inhibiting aromatse which I do not want to do!

    Another point to add, I had raised prolactin when first getting ill, they thought I had a pituitary tumor. Prolactin was not that high but MRI confirmed no tumor was found. I took cabergoline and it restored my spontaneous erections. Not even TRT did this, although TRT did seem to help erection strength.

    Summarising



    It took me about a year to realise the medical world could not do anything for me, hence why I have been living so clean for so long.

    My issues seem to be with low e2 and low dopamine. I have read studies on Tribulus and the androgen receptor sensitivity in the brain, maybe this could improve the dopamine issues?

    I am going to plan to do a longer fast however with my body in the fragile state its in I wonder if a juice feast would be a better idea?

    Sorry for such an in depth story. Trying to paint a clear picture for you!

    Thanks again
    Last edited by Lookingforhelp; 1 Week Ago at 10:53 AM.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookingforhelp View Post
    Thanks for taking the time to reply.


    Yes I have done a couple of cleanses over the last 3 years. I have not fasted for longer than a week, however, the last three years I have been gluten free, alcohol free, processed foods free. I try to be organic as possible in terms of meats and veg however it is very costly and I have to budget. Saying that I eat generally 75% organic foods most of the time.

    My case is fairly familiar to most finasteride users in that my symptoms really exploded upon becoming very ill with either food poisoning or an insect bite whilst on holiday in Mexico. Its ironic because I went on the holiday as a detox to write myself of all the issues. I was experiencing a bit of ED. Things got 100 times worse once I got ill. I can only explain it as the worst stomach flu in the world.

    I have had numerous testing for parasites and Lyme all coming back negative. The NHS system is rather crap! Upon returning from Mexico, I was hospitalised for a week. I woke up with chest pain and numbness in my arms, went to A&E and they confirmed a heart attack. I was 24. Upon testing, they discovered I had inflammation of the heart. Then I developed prostatitis, then gut inflammation. Now recently I have experienced Uveitis which is inflammation of the eyes.

    I have been tested for numerous autoimmune issues as they are common in my family. They found slightly raised markers for autoimmune issues with my liver. Seeing a Dr next week about it. May explain my high SHBG?

    Anyway, my point being is I have tried so desperately to fix this and I live such a healthy lifestyle other than I do not over do it on the exercise point, not out of laziness, it just makes me crash if I over do it. I basically give my body the best I can. My partner and I own a juice bar so I have 2 or 3 juices a day normally. Sometimes I do intermittent juice fasting as it is meant to be good for you. I also bought a home infared sauna which I use 2 times a week.

    I think a lot of my issues come down to my body fighting something which is halting my recovery! My hips click and crack, my sleep is usually not great, libido is down. The reason I think I have the opposite issues to most propecia users is that high estrogen does not seem to be a problem for me, it's in fact low estrogen that is. HCG whilst on it got rid of the hip issues once it was raised. It also returned my flaccid hang to a much normal state. I cannot seem to find much on the internet regarding high SHBG and low e2. Most supps that lower SHBG is by inhibiting aromatse which I do not want to do!

    Another point to add, I had raised prolactin when first getting ill, they thought I had a pituitary tumor. Prolactin was not that high but MRI confirmed no tumor was found. I took cabergoline and it restored my spontaneous erections. Not even TRT did this, although TRT did seem to help erection strength.

    Summarising



    It took me about a year to realise the medical world could not do anything for me, hence why I have been living so clean for so long.

    My issues seem to be with low e2 and low dopamine. I have read studies on Tribulus and the androgen receptor sensitivity in the brain, maybe this could improve the dopamine issues?

    I am going to plan to do a longer fast however with my body in the fragile state its in I wonder if a juice feast would be a better idea?

    Sorry for such an in depth story. Trying to paint a clear picture for you!

    Thanks again
    Not a problem. The more info, the better.

    Seeing as you're having autoimmune type issues, inflammation is your enemy. You would benefit from an extended juice feast or water fast. If it were me, i would do a month long juice feast. Making sure you're getting at least 2,000 calories/day from just pure juice along with a half gallon of water per day as well. This will quench any inflammation you are having along with getting a nice, deep cleanse in.

    In regards to your dopamine, I would heavily supplement with Mucuna Organic Extract - L-DOPA - Lost Empire Herbs (Mucuna Puriens) along with any of the adaptogens I had mentioned earlier, especially Rhodiola, again you can get these both from Lost Empire.

    You're in a great position as you own your own juice bar!!
    If you are persistent, you will get it. If you are consistent, you will keep it.

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