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Weren't you the one who implied that BB'rs are vein. All I said was I'd rather look like a piece of granite over a slob who can throw more weights around. And no powerlifting is not more technical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodja
Powerlifters are mainly judged on 3 lifts right?
Bodybuilders are judged literally on a whole body of work
It's ok, you can lift your heavy weights and I'll train for shape and structure. As long as we're both having fun doing it, thats what matters.
There is inherent vanity within BB'ing as it is gauged upon a certain look and yes, powerlifting is far more technical both in the programming and performing the actual lift. The actual lifting technique used by many of the top BB'ers is rather sloppy. Comparing the judging used between them is a completely separate argument as there is not a way to quantitative measure a physique; it is all a matter of perception upon the judge, which is why there is frequently controversy.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman
We wouldn't train for 8 hours continuously but certainly over a 12 hour span--example a 3-a-day split. However, we also do not do this all of the time, like Rodja stated it is supercompensation and needs to be done correctly< which at times its difficult and takes a lot of experience and detailed logging of your training sessions. Each individual is different, consequently in my experience women, for the most part, cycle through faster than male counterparts.Quote:
Originally Posted by burlyman30
To an extent, but it certainly isn't condensed to the that amount, although we train sports specific we utilize many other training modalities.Quote:
Originally Posted by weekend
lol...terrible:) Although are we comparing elite level training, regardless of sport, to gym goers? Professional bb'ers put their bodies through hell as well. By the way you can garner training aspects from many different areas imo..certain concepts such as volume can relate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelisej
- flex wheeler is a notorious 'sloppy' trainer technique wise
- ill say power lifting is much more technical
-being said im into bodybuilding, but to say i dont like pushing heavy is dumb, im 33, AND I STILL love the idea i can move a bar full of plates
carry on.....................
jmo, benching 500-600lbs for a rep with boards seems more demanding/intense than my 5 sets of 15 on bench.....i dont think you can measure the difference using rest and so on to compare......just mentally it must be draining to get so psyched up to gut under a 600lb bar, regardless if youve been sitting and breathing the last 20minQuote:
Originally Posted by weekend
at the end of the day, any athletic endeavor that is pursued with intention and determination will demand something of the human body, regardless what the athlete looks like or is doing
Branch Warren is the same way today. Different conversation but it goes on to show form is all relative and you don't necessarily need to do what most people consider proper form.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJM
But a bodybuilding routine is much more tactical as in what exercises need to be done, what angles will hit the muscles or shape the muscles in a certain way, for example what needs to be done in order to give the V taper. If a bodypart is lagging when to lay off one bodypart and pay extra attention to another. How much cardio will make you look flat vs just enough. What intensity to do cardio. So much more to think about when it comes to training.
I would venture to say that the word "technical" is being used to mean two different things based on what I am reading here. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but sandman is saying bbing is technical because there are so many aspects that need to be thought about within the sport. Rodja is saying that the individual lift is extremely technical because there are so many aspects to lifting a heavy weight in a fashion that allows the best leverage while avoiding sticking points and plateaus.
Your both right, but talking about completely different things.
Sorry as it's off topic, but are you the guy to ask about discounts for AMS, Forerunner?
Apologies re my quote, no offence intended, just messin.
Wait, are you saying I can get huge even with shit technique? Godamnit, I've been wasting all my time watching those "So You Think You Can Squat" videos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodja
Well said...Quote:
Originally Posted by DJM
And I do give props to the guys that PL here. I'm not into it but damn impressed with the weight you guys can push around!...
Well somewhat amazed I missed this one going on. Interesting points and counter points. I'll stay clear of any bb vs pl debate. Im obviously biased. Interesting discussion though. and lively. Of course many of the top tier bodybuilders have powerlifted. Including Arnold, but thats something lost to history. You pull up Louie, or Mark Bell, and I'd counter with Stan, or Frankl. But I'm seriously not interested in joining that portion of this thread.
For the record I train 3 days a week and typically each session is 2-3 hours, although squat is normally closer to 4 hours. That's preparing for a equipped competition. With a full powerlifting team. The average powerlifting total of our group is 2020 lbs. (prior to this sundays XPC competition when that average will go up)
When training Raw only (no gear) my sessions are still at the 2 hour mark.
In fact looking back very rarely do I have a session at or under 1 hour in duration. And I have at lease a four year history where I can say prior to any hormonal assistance of any kind I averaged an increase in my total of 100lbs a year, and an increase of roughly 10 lbs of lean body mass. So obviously I feel my methods and duration/intensity work for me. I have never stopped to worry about cortisol levels.
^^^^ without the net and all the over thinking, not many wouldQuote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow
hard work gets results, for me itll trump a spike in cortisol everyday
So anyway, back to this cortisol discussion. The long and short seems to be that short spikes in cortisol as it relates to weight lifting is probably beneficial. It's the prolonged cortisol that creates the issue right? I think that my works constant stress and screwed up hours elevate my cortisol which can be a huge stumbling block to fat loss goals, but I'm not sure about its effects on strength. I think like all the rest of the hormones it's tissue dependent. At the end of the day, I think it's a fools errand to single out one specific hormone and say "hormone X" always acts in this manner.
Recently read about using Phosphatidylserine at bedtime to reduce high cortisol levels and improve sleep. I tried it last night (300mgs) and had deep uninterrupted sleep. Don't know if my cortisol levels are high, though there's a fair amount of stress at the moment.
So if if you're suffering from prolonged cortisol levels as Macdon mentioned, maybe this is a way to combat them.
Although it's a bit dated now, Robert Sapolsky's "Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers", Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers, Third Edition: Robert M. Sapolsky: 9780805073690: Amazon.com: Books, imo is the best lay guide by a first rate bio-neurologist to the action of glucocorticoids in general, and cortisol in particular. I don't recall that he says so in so many words, but it's clear from his account that it is chronic, not episodic, cortisol imbalances that create problems, including many of the chronic diseases characteristic of our "civilization".
Better be good, I've just bought it from Amazon along with The Art of War. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Sperwer
It IS good, but be forewarned, it ain't easy. LOL
Art of war is free in the public domain.
Interesting notion that prolonged not episodic effects are different.
Yes, it is the chronic v acute status that changes the game. Cortisol is also one of the primary hormones responsible for free fatty-acid mobilization and fat loss, which is why stims do elevate cortisol. Short bursts of cortisol from weight training, more or less, indicative of some form of metabolic damage and that is exactly what you want from a session.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macdon1588
Now, to what extent is dependent upon the person and for how long depends on the persons work capacity, but that leads into the planned overreaching phase, which is something that I will be writing about soon.
So, next question, what can be down about chronically elevated cortisol? I believe that pretty good with 7-spray, but I'm done with kind of thing for a while. I'm trying to cut back the stims. I noticed the other day that after a HIIT training session with about some light cardio for a combined total of 30 minutes, that I feel pretty damn good, it's the same for heavy leg day. Is that like the cortisol spike?
Yep, but whether it generally high is the problem (as I've know learnt). If you're stressed and having trouble sleeping may probably indicate high cortisol levels.
Apologies that the girl isn't naked. Will try to do better.
SLEEP ALL NIGHT WITH PHOSPHATIDYL SERINE - Wellness for Life
That feeling is more likely from endorphins than a cortisol spike. Chronically elevated cortisol can really only be altered via lifestyle change. Some mood elevating supplements may help this, but to what extent is unknown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macdon1588
I'm also a fan of phosphatidyl serin (still have a stash of endo amp), but whether that is a panacea or even part of the treatment for any particular instance of chronically elevated cortisol would depend I think on the specific etiology of that instance. One of the things I learned from Sapolsky's book is that the causes can be varied, numerous and interactive with one another and produce a cascade of effects. Just trying to treat one symptom or modulate one pathway of elevated cortisol without an understanding of the whole syndrome in the case presented probably would not be optimally effective or effectual at all. As Rodja says, chronically elevated cortisol is likely a sign that a (major) lifestyle change is in order.
I wish I could change my lifestyle. But simply put, I make too much money to quit this job and I am not qualified enough to replace my income. I'm working on it though because no amount of money is worth putting up with a job that is possibly killing you very slowly and keeping you from realizing your dreams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sperwer
To switch of AMPK activation (or at least limit it post exercise), Leucine is a very good and viable option. It plays a huge role in activating mTOR post exercise.