Bizzbee's Trial with Androhard by MuscleGelz

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Originally Posted by Snell1234

At what point after the cycle do you think? 3 week mark?

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Something like that. This has happened both times: immediately post-cycle = kind of a downer for a couple days, one week post-cycle = record high for specifically PFS healing, 2-3 weeks after cycle = even better record high, 4 weeks+ = tapering down to small but noticeable baseline increase.

Again, weirdly enough, even a one week cycle followed this same pattern. I'm doing a third cycle as we speak, I might make a thread here soon, don't wanna hijack Bizzbee's.

Anyone know the shelf life on the R-Andro from IML? On my bottle the label reads: 20216 MFG 4 16

Does this mean it was manufactured in April of 2016 and is good till June 2021? If anyone could tell me I would appreciate it. I'm thinking of switching to R-Andro for future cycles. This androhard stuff is starting to give me brain fog and fatigue 4 weeks in and thats only with no more than 3-4 pumps a day.

I recall cd saying it's like a year or more.

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Originally Posted by bizzbee

Anyone know the shelf life on the R-Andro from IML? On my bottle the label reads: 20216 MFG 4 16

Does this mean it was manufactured in April of 2016 and is good till June 2021? If anyone could tell me I would appreciate it. I'm thinking of switching to R-Andro for future cycles. This androhard stuff is starting to give me brain fog and fatigue 4 weeks in and thats only with no more than 3-4 pumps a day.

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Yeah, CD said it lasts for a couple years or so. I keep mine refrigerated.

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Originally Posted by Durantia37

Yeah, CD said it lasts for a couple years or so. I keep mine refrigerated.

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interesting. where did u get the fridge thing? and is there consensus on the prohormone to use now that socal isn't offering it for a while?

Thanks for the input fellas. I'm not sure I can really continue like this although I said I would try to tough it out, I've decided to cut this cycle a little short. This has gone beyond the point of diminishing returns and feels now to be somewhat counterproductive. The lethargy was especially pronounced on Saturday while trying to do some uphill sprints. Could barely muster up enough energy to complete just one sprint. Cardiovascular endurance has degraded over the last few weeks. Headaches returned yesterday and thermogenic effects not detectable anymore. This is most likely the epiandro. 4 weeks should be sufficient to be regarded as a "cycle". Anywhere from 4-8 weeks is. It's time to implement PCT and wait a few weeks to see the real improvements.

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Originally Posted by bizzbee

Thanks for the input fellas. I'm not sure I can really continue like this although I said I would try to tough it out, I've decided to cut this cycle a little short. This has gone beyond the point of diminishing returns and feels now to be somewhat counterproductive. The lethargy was especially pronounced on Saturday while trying to do some uphill sprints. Could barely muster up enough energy to complete just one sprint. Cardiovascular endurance has degraded over the last few weeks. Headaches returned yesterday and thermogenic effects not detectable anymore. This is most likely the epiandro. 4 weeks should be sufficient to be regarded as a "cycle". Anywhere from 4-8 weeks is. It's time to implement PCT and wait a few weeks to see the real improvements.

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What have ypu planmed for the PCT? Pine pollen and the rest of the herbs are what CD reccomends. Are you doing something different?

Whatup max bro, what I really dont get is if most of you guys dont find any epi-Andro product suitable for your system, then how come the much vaunted AndroHard by pp gets such high ratings. Even that had epi-Andro, disnt it?

Some don't tolerate the epiandro as well as others.

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Originally Posted by The battler

Whatup max bro, what I really dont get is if most of you guys dont find any epi-Andro product suitable for your system, then how come the much vaunted AndroHard by pp gets such high ratings. Even that had epi-Andro, disnt it?

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Ok. The bottle of leftover R-andro is probably too old. Chucked it. Next cycle I will just order a fresh batch. Ordered some extra herbs. Felt little to no suppression during 4-week cycle with Androhard by Muscle Gelz. Just a slight drop in libido. Would have continued but headaches returned and lethargy became intolerable. Anyone care to share what their favorite herbs are? This is what my herb lineup will look like :

1. Ant Extract
2. Black maca
3. Pine pollen powder and tincture
5. Cistanche
6. Lion's Mane
7. Mucuna
8. Tongkat Ali

If you'd like to make suggestions on some other herbs I'd be happy to consider. Also, if you consider the Toco caps to be a worthy addition to the PCT let me know. I will probably be looking at Toco from wicked supplements.

tribulus, ashwa, rhodiola, butea are top 7 for me. along with the one's u cited pine pollen, tongkat, mucana.

where you gunna get your prohormone from? it's down the line for me but I want to prepare cause I'm not sure it's gunna be easy to find a good source for Canada that's cdnuts approved...

Thanks for your suggestions. What brand of Butea Superba do you use? I am planning to go with IML's Super R Andro. It's the next best thing I suppose to the original Androhard from Primordial Performance.

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Originally Posted by jacknap

tribulus, ashwa, rhodiola, butea are top 7 for me. along with the one's u cited pine pollen, tongkat, mucana.

where you gunna get your prohormone from? it's down the line for me but I want to prepare cause I'm not sure it's gunna be easy to find a good source for Canada that's cdnuts approved...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by bizzbee

Ok. The bottle of leftover R-andro is probably too old. Chucked it. Next cycle I will just order a fresh batch. Ordered some extra herbs. Felt little to no suppression during 4-week cycle with Androhard by Muscle Gelz. Just a slight drop in libido. Would have continued but headaches returned and lethargy became intolerable. Anyone care to share what their favorite herbs are? This is what my herb lineup will look like :

1. Ant Extract
2. Black maca
3. Pine pollen powder and tincture
5. Cistanche
6. Lion's Mane
7. Mucuna
8. Tongkat Ali

If you'd like to make suggestions on some other herbs I'd be happy to consider. Also, if you consider the Toco caps to be a worthy addition to the PCT let me know. I will probably be looking at Toco from wicked supplements.

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I would add in some adaptogens as well, such as Rhodiola, Eluthero and shilijat. He shou wu is another excellent herb I think you should add.

there's a herb store in my city that has it, so it's not a brand. I would just go with what cdnuts says his recommendations are top notch. Gunna try that next.

I do respond to the herb stores butea like crazy. There was a thai guy who used it and boosted his DHT by 300%. It kinda feels similar to yohimbine to me...

Super R-Andro Rx IronMag Labs

Is this the one you're talking about?

Yes that's the one.

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Originally Posted by jacknap

there's a herb store in my city that has it, so it's not a brand. I would just go with what cdnuts says his recommendations are top notch. Gunna try that next.

I do respond to the herb stores butea like crazy. There was a thai guy who used it and boosted his DHT by 300%. It kinda feels similar to yohimbine to me...

Super R-Andro Rx IronMag Labs

Is this the one you're talking about?

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Thanks CD. I just want to be done with this. 14 years is enough. I'll take whatever. F*&$ it.

All the herbs listed above will be coming from Lost Empire.

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

I would add in some adaptogens as well, such as Rhodiola, Eluthero and shilijat. He shou wu is another excellent herb I think you should add.

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My first cycle of DHT a few years back (ca. 2012-2013) caused suppression symptoms soon after taking my first few capsules. The fact that I have felt little to no suppression this time around is very encouraging. Wish I could have taken it for another 2 weeks, oh well maybe the next cycle will be different.

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Originally Posted by bizzbee

Thanks CD. I just want to be done with this. 14 years is enough. I'll take whatever. F*&$ it.

All the herbs listed above will be coming from Lost Empire.

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Fourteen years? Christ, man.

My top five herbs (apart from pp powder and tincture):
-Suma
-Tribulus
-Tongkat
-Cistanche
-He Shou Wu

Well more like 10 years with PFS. Right now i have a mild form of PFS. Things started to really improve in 2013-2014 with just diet, exercise, and some herbs, a "lite" version of cdnuts' protocol. It was effective to some degree, but like the man said, you need to go all or none to truly recover. Thanks for the suggestions. I just ordered the Eleuthero and the Schisandra. No more f*$&ing around.

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Originally Posted by Durantia37

Fourteen years? Christ, man.

My top five herbs (apart from pp powder and tincture):
-Suma
-Tribulus
-Tongkat
-Cistanche
-He Shou Wu

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by bizzbee

Well more like 10 years with PFS. Right now i have a mild form of PFS. Things started to really improve in 2013-2014 with just diet, exercise, and some herbs, a "lite" version of cdnuts' protocol. It was effective to some degree, but like the man said, you need to go all or none to truly recover. Thanks for the suggestions. I just ordered the Eleuthero and the Schisandra. No more f*$&ing around.

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lol diet and exercise? wtf were u doing before you started doing that? lol

It appears as though you may be laughing because you think I'm a fool for not doing this sooner. But I wonder how you would have gotten along in 2003 when these sorts of forums filled with anecdotes, advice, tips, and encouragement regarding PFS either did not exist or were very hard to find. At least I suffered in silence all these years without whining and whimpering like a weakling. If you like to laugh at the shortcomings and misfortunes of others I know a great forum for that: Propeciahelp. You can join the likes of PVDL and others in ridiculing and jeering at those who are also "late-comers" to the onerous task of trying to recover.

I'm going to keep a special eye out for you. I'd like to see how quickly you are able to beat this thing. Let's see you earn those bragging rights of yours for getting an early start in the game shall we?

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Originally Posted by jacknap

lol diet and exercise? wtf were u doing before you started doing that? lol

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I just ordered some days ago a great list of herbs and not herbs (ant powder) of Lost empire and other manufacturers, the most are lost of empires, check, i have 22:

-tongkat
-tribullus
-horny goat weed
-Ant Extract
-butea superba
-pine pollen
-maca
-Shilijat
-Cistanche
-Cordyceps
-Hi shou wu
-safed musli
-mucuna dopa
-maral
-catuaba
-muira puama
-Royal Jelly
-guduchi
-suma
-eleuthero
-Rhodiola
-ashwagandha

I live at Brazil, i will begin my 42 days R andro cycle at first! Have been 8 years suffering from PFS like symptoms (i got it after use of Nandrolone), i think the problem seems like PFS because nandrolone has to do with 5AR and the symtoms are like PFS.

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Originally Posted by bizzbee

It appears as though you may be laughing because you think I'm a fool for not doing this sooner. But I wonder how you would have gotten along in 2003 when these sorts of forums filled with anecdotes, advice, tips, and encouragement regarding PFS either did not exist or were very hard to find. At least I suffered in silence all these years without whining and whimpering like a weakling. If you like to laugh at the shortcomings and misfortunes of others I know a great forum for that: Propeciahelp. You can join the likes of PVDL and others in ridiculing and jeering at those who are also "late-comers" to the onerous task of trying to recover.

I'm going to keep a special eye out for you. I'd like to see how quickly you are able to beat this thing. Let's see you earn those bragging rights of yours for getting an early start in the game shall we?

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bro. I hope we both recover as fast as possible. Sorry that I came across as an asshole to you. I wouldn't wish pfs on my worst enemy man. I'm sorry if I came across as an asshole.

In reality I was just curious of what you were doing prior to getting your diet and exercise right. I wasn't actually laughing, I used 'lol' a lot as a bad habit.

I'm sorry I was being insensitive as you've suffered a long time and I will help you as much as I can on our journys. I hope you accept my apology.

Truly was curious about what you were doing, because after I crashed I made gym and diet a priority as that's the one thing I knew you can't go wrong with.

Also to be honest I'm not actually super confident in my recovery. I used a different drug, and I had convulsions so I might have like a stroke or something. I'm just putting one foot in front of the other the best I can. This isn't a competition. This a brotherhood.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bizzbee

It appears as though you may be laughing because you think I'm a fool for not doing this sooner. But I wonder how you would have gotten along in 2003 when these sorts of forums filled with anecdotes, advice, tips, and encouragement regarding PFS either did not exist or were very hard to find. At least I suffered in silence all these years without whining and whimpering like a weakling. If you like to laugh at the shortcomings and misfortunes of others I know a great forum for that: Propeciahelp. You can join the likes of PVDL and others in ridiculing and jeering at those who are also "late-comers" to the onerous task of trying to recover.

I'm going to keep a special eye out for you. I'd like to see how quickly you are able to beat this thing. Let's see you earn those bragging rights of yours for getting an early start in the game shall we?

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Ho man, dont worry, i think he wouldnt want to make you angry.

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I have a bottle of Pine Pollen Tincture that's probably no more than 2 years old. I've read that these alcohol based tinctures are stable for many years. Think it would still be good to use?

Hey CD, what herbs do you recommend during PCT? Will any do or are there a few that are particularly suited to the task of recovering after a cycle?

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Originally Posted by bizzbee

Hey CD, what herbs do you recommend during PCT? Will any do or are there a few that are particularly suited to the task of recovering after a cycle?

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I used to recommend a particular PCT, but after running the herbs for so long and experimenting, I've found that to be redundant and a waste of money as the herb rotating protocol IS a pct that you can run indefinitely. Plus it cuts out the cost and hassle of having to run a dedicated PCT. It's just not necessary while running all of the different herbs.

Not to mention the prohormones we're dealing with are barely suppressive as it is.

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Originally Posted by bizzbee

I have a bottle of Pine Pollen Tincture that's probably no more than 2 years old. I've read that these alcohol based tinctures are stable for many years. Think it would still be good to use?

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It can't hurt to run it. You should be able to feel whether it is working or not.

Thanks CD. I am going to start with the mucuna tonight before bed as I heard that's a good time to take it. Also, I just tried the pine pollen tincture, not really feeling much. It is rather old. I've got some pine pollen powder on the way. Will order a fresh batch of the tincture in due time. Let's see how it goes!

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Originally Posted by bizzbee

Thanks CD. I am going to start with the mucuna tonight before bed as I heard that's a good time to take it. Also, I just tried the pine pollen tincture, not really feeling much. It is rather old. I've got some pine pollen powder on the way. Will order a fresh batch of the tincture in due time. Let's see how it goes!

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mucana is specifically good for increasing vivid dreams + lowering prolactin = less refractory period. I used 25 grams pre-crash a few years ago and got lucid dreams.

also raises dopamine.

I was working with a naturopath before and she said that tincture can last a lifetime... but I still think it's best to do fresh but can't hurt!

Had some vivid dreams as well overnight. Woke up with some heaviness and some brain fog, then around late in the morning became remarkably lucid.

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

I used to recommend a particular PCT, but after running the herbs for so long and experimenting, I've found that to be redundant and a waste of money as the herb rotating protocol IS a pct that you can run indefinitely. Plus it cuts out the cost and hassle of having to run a dedicated PCT. It's just not necessary while running all of the different herbs.

Not to mention the prohormones we're dealing with are barely suppressive as it is.

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Hello CD, in my case I am looking forward to stacking the R-Andro with 4 Andro, which is thought to be slightly estrogenic. I know the R andro would take care of the estrogen spike, but because I'd be stacking both at once(200 mg each per day), should I plan for a separate pct?
Also, as far as the herbs PCT is concerned, is pine pollen powder the main herb I should base my recovery on?

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Originally Posted by The battler

Hello CD, in my case I am looking forward to stacking the R-Andro with 4 Andro, which is thought to be slightly estrogenic. I know the R andro would take care of the estrogen spike, but because I'd be stacking both at once(200 mg each per day), should I plan for a separate pct?
Also, as far as the herbs PCT is concerned, is pine pollen powder the main herb I should base my recovery on?

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???

Battler...some forum etiquette.

This is Bizbees thread and any discussion here should be geared towards that topic.

It's rude to jump in on someone elses thread to try and "catch me" and start asking questions that are completely off topic to the thread you're in.

If you have specific questions, which you obviously do, your best bet is to start a thread of your own. Someone will probably have an answer for you before I even see it. That being said, I check ALL threads at least twice a week, so it will be seen eventually.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

???

Battler...some forum etiquette.

This is Bizbees thread and any discussion here should be geared towards that topic.

It's rude to jump in on someone elses thread to try and "catch me" and start asking questions that are completely off topic to the thread you're in.

If you have specific questions, which you obviously do, your best bet is to start a thread of your own. Someone will probably have an answer for you before I even see it. That being said, I check ALL threads at least twice a week, so it will be seen eventually.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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I only asked since there was already an ongoing discussion on pct for the R Andro. And since the thread already is a log for prohormone use, I thought it wouldn't be irrelevant if I put one of my own questions there. Anyway, I apologize for any inconvenience caused.

Considering adding Bacopa to herbal regimen. Looks beneficial for those afflicted by PFS-induced neurosteroid imbalances. Please share any experiences ...

First night using Mucuna... morning after more alert, less foggy, clearer thinking, more focused. Second night using Mucuna... same result this morning. Only use 1/4 tsp each dose. Regular dose is about 1/2 tsp. Time to switch to another herb. Waiting on herbs to arrive. This thread will conclude once "PCT" period has ended.

Just ordered some Lion's Mane today. Bacopa is sold out, damn it. Still feel pretty good today as I did yesterday. These herbs really do work.

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Originally Posted by bizzbee

Just ordered some Lion's Mane today. Bacopa is sold out, damn it. Still feel pretty good today as I did yesterday. These herbs really do work.

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Lol

You think I was just making s*** up?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Hey Bizzbee- yeah I have been taking Lions Mane and Bacopa for awhile now pretty much on a daily basis and from my experience seems to have a positive effect on the mind. Specifically for me seems to make me more clear headed and less fog.

On the bacopa- I have learned to order in bulk, because this herb is often out of stock at LEH for some reason. Guess it must be popular. I always put my name on their email list to let me know when it is back in stock.

Take care brother.

It took a little more nudging in my case as I tend to proceed very cautiously, but clearly I've underestimated the power of these herbs.

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

Lol

You think I was just making s*** up?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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Some lethargy induced by the epiandro remains. May need to wait a couple of weeks in order to get over this.