It's been done. There's a few guys but they're few and far between and coincidentally do all of the right things too.
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It's been done. There's a few guys but they're few and far between and coincidentally do all of the right things too.
Hey guys. Long time I don’t write here but unfortunately this is not a good text. I’m getting severe anxiety and panic attacks that are making my head burn.
What I noticed is that I’m weak to some herbs like tribulus. Every time I take it I feel anxious, depressed, get severe insomnia, get a wet dream the next day and get way worse, basically tribulus is putting me in a worse situation and it’s working like clomid or novaldex. So what I wanted to ask you guys is if you know which herb would be good to my case, and maybe if you guys know any herb that is really weak, I can’t even stand 1/8 of a tribulus pill.
Also I’m thinking if I should stay only to exercises until my anxiety, panic gets better. What do you guys think? I really need help.
Depends. How strict were you being with the protocol? 100%, 75%? Stop taking the trib and just move onto the next herb in rotation. If you're doing something other then the outlined protocol, it's impossible to know where you are when I'm not sure where you've been.
Pretty much 90% of it. I was just avoiding weight lifting (because everytime I do it my cortisol raises too much, I feel worse and stay worse) but I’m doing walking and some hiit (if you can’t run, walk, if you can’t walk, craw). I do Whim Hof breathing technique too, cold shower, diet.
I know it will sound strange but everytime I take an herb that is too strong for me (for example, tribulus, even 1/8 of a pill, really) I get an anxious and depressed feeling and when I go to sleep (I take herbs in the morning with empty stomach, but maybe with food I still get the same reaction) I get severe insomnia and will get wet dreams the next day (and I don’t know what happens but it feels like I get drained, weak, my eyes get red and more depressed, anxious, and then my sleep gets worse, I can’t sleep with the same quality etc)
I even tried psilocin but with my recent panic attack episodes that caused dissociative and desrealization I’m feeling so afraid to take it again (even taking microdose). It was making me good though but last time I took tribulus I got 2 wet dreams and my balls were hurting. My panic attacks came with a burning sensation on my head and it was probably from 2 wet dreams that made my sleep really bad.
I got vervain tincture that is helping a bit with the anxiety, but it’s not pure vervain, there is a mix of herbs for anxiety, but I’m feeling better but still afraid.
So I was thinking about a very gentle herb since tribulus is too stimulant for me, maybe some herbs that won’t get me stimulated.
My friend also got bad reaction he was rotating tribulus, shilajit, maca, royal jelly, tongkat, pine pollen, ashwaghanda, cordyceps, mucuna, and others and he got severe anxiety too.
I’m sure this is the way to go to recovery because herbs + exercise + diet is the key factors in all recoveries I read online, with some variations like breathings, cold shower etc. And I’m sure that I need some herb(s) to help my body get and stay in a new level of health. I just need to go easier, lighter at least for now that I’m very sensitive. If felt like I was drinking a gallon of coffee.
You're better off getting the stand alone: Blue Vervain | Total Male Optimization
If trib is bothering you that much, simply don't take it anymore.
Could you tell me how strong is blue vervain? I mean, just giving me an exemple how effective it was for you (just to make me feel calm, sorry). Does it interfere with testosterone?
Yeah I will save tribulus for the future I guess when I feel I’m ready to take it without getting problems, just like coffee.
Cd, which herb do you feel helps us but it’s also sweet, gentle to the body? I mean, I wanted a tribulus that wouldn’t cause insomnia etc.
My friend (Fausto, he is on swolesource) took many herbs, prohormone and got depressed, and he said tribulus was also bad for him too, maybe the most strong herb regarding stimulant effect, giving anxiety etc.
It feels exactly like clomid and it's not just for me. Do you think I should stay away from herbs for some time? I mean, clomid stop working and make people feel worse because T and E gets high.
And I was thinking here regarding my problem with wet dreams, basically my body wasn't holding the herbs anymore and made me feel anxious, depressed, with insomnia and then the way the body would balance my hormones was by orgasm, because it would increase my prolactin and decrease my dopamine. I had wet dream theses days and they don't feel as bad as before.
2 things I'd like to ask (one is not on totalmaleoptimization btw)
1 - What are your thoughts about icing the balls? I read on reddit some guys saying it takes the cold showers benefits to a whole new level. I did it yesterday but IDK if something good happened (too soon to tell, but maybe I'm a bit better today).
2 - Which herbs do you think its weaker than tribulus? I'm thinking about a more gentle approach, specially because I had a very high quality tribulus and it was too much for me, it was almost like clomid (weaker, but still too strong). Maybe I need to just do the rest of the protocol for some time until my hormones get ready for herbs again.
Stop the trib if it's giving you that much trouble. DON'T stop the others.....that would be silly and a waste of your time.
I prefer cold showers because they offer more benefits then just icing the balls, but hey, whatever knocks your socks off.
Your hormones aren't going to be "ready" for herbs without taking the herbs. THEY are what bring your hormones back online....slowly. If I had to make a guess, I'd say you were not rotating the trib properly. One dose weekly at minimum should not give you all of those side effects. I'm betting you were taking it more often than you are admitting.
No, I was taking once every two weeks it was 1/6 or 1/8 of a pill. I noticed I felt my ball sore, insomnia, anxious, depressed. The same thing I noticed with Clomid. What I was reading and checking bloodtest of other guys, is that tribulus Works by blocking estrogen (receptor maybe?) and it then increase LH, FSH and testosterone. But if you take too much or too often your estrogen will be high and then one of the two things would happen (tribulus won't work or it would make me and others worse).
This is common with Clomid that is way stronger than tribulus. Usually people need to stay away until the estrogen decrease, so it would be ok to take again and feel the benefits.
It seems tongkat ali does the same, but I'm not sure.
I think in this case me and others need to do two things, stop tribulus to let the body restart the hormones and then take a weaker tribulus or weaker herb. I was looking for maca but I don't know how it works.
Cd, could vou tell me the strongest herb you took and the weaker?
No...I can't.
Firstly, I have way too many other things to attend to besides listing the perceived strength and weakness of each herb. This isn't what your focus should be on.
Secondly, I don't think you get it. It's not about what herbs are in your rotation, for the most part...at all. The benefits of the herbs come from rotating as many of them as you can WHILE doing EVERYTHING else listed in the protocol. You have WAY to much focus on Trib, for some strange reason.
And please, stop comparing Tribulus to Clomid. It's ridiculous.
So to clarify....you think that by taking an 1/8 of a Trib pill, every 14 days caused you all of these issues? Come on dude.
You need to stop focusing so much on something that isn't important in the overall scheme of things. In the other group I don't think I heard someone say Tribulus so much in such a short amount of time as I have from you. STOP!!!
It's just not necessary.
One herb per day for either a seven, fourteen or twenty one day cycle......THAT'S IT. The combination of these things along with the rest of the protocol is what is going to fix you. To put so much importance on one herb is nonsense.
@Brazilianguy, sorry to say, but are you struggling with PFS since 2016? I just came back in the 1st page of this thread and you were still comparing tribulus with clomid, not in this words, but with the same speech, doing micromanagment and worryng too much about It.
Hope you get better soon Man.
I think this one of the most unfortunate effect of the PFS battle: you become an extremely high inhibition person
The opposite of a cool calm and collected male in control. Self-doubt creeps in way quicker for us.
Brazilian guy do you have any penis shrinkage?
It is the EXACT opposite......literally. And we try not to talk so much about the problems here rather, the solution to those problems. Most guys have most symptoms or a grab bag of them all, and really, it doesn't matter. The answer to ALL the issues are the same anyway.