I decided to end my 5adhp run today and would like to get your input on a couple of things. It's been one month and I'm pleased with the results. I was going to go for six weeks but I decided to stop at four because the lower estrogen levels seem to be causing some minor issues. Mainly mild fluid retention on the sides of my knee caps. I have been reading about joint issues in the knees eventually leading to fluid build up in that area. Seeing that low estrogen can be hard on the joints, I am assuming that the lower estrogen pushed a mild joint issue that was already a factor over the edge leading to the fluid retention.( I am sure intense sking every weekend and doing more squats to prepare for sking has not helped this issue either). I also seem to have "leveled out" with the benefits that I have seen from this so I figure its all of a more good time to stop and hit it with something else anyway. I'm by no means complaining. Overall the benefits outweighed this minor issue and I am not finished with 5adhp.
As far as how I proceed from here I figure I have options. Do nothing other than the basic protocol for a solid month of herb cycling, healthy diet ect ect.. and let my estrogen levels
recover before doing anything else beyond the basic protocol
OR
Go right into a low dose R andro run (decided against androhard transdermal for now because I have extra R andro I would want to use up before purchasing additional DHT pro hormones) or a progesterone/ pregnenolone/DHEA run
In order to simplify things I'm always going to look at running androsterone and or epiandrosterone in its own category to be ran with nothing else (not even herb cycling). So I'm going to jump right into this or I'm going to try some combination of the prog,preg dhea protocol.
I'm not sure though what I want to do considering the main reason I stopped the 5adhp was because of estrogen reducing concerns which could also easily remain an issue on a R andro run or a prog/dhea or a preg/dhea run considering all of these things inhibit E. For the record I have ran R andro at 300MG per day for six weeks before with no joint/knee issues or other low E issues. So based on what I know thus far for me anyway 5MG of 5aDHP inhibits E more than 300MG of super R andro.
I apologise if this is a dumb question but If i am understand correctly running the DHEA with prog or preg is not to like "balance" estrogen in anyway by preventing it from going to low. Instead it's related to balancing thyroid and cortisol levels and to increase DHT while taking the preg or prog correct?
After my postive experience with 5adhp I'm feeling like the most logical thing to do at this point is to continue to increase things that we know remain low after taking a DHT inhibitor such as preg and prog. However reading in between the lines is leading me to think that preg and or prog will have a greater chance of leaving me in the semi tanked estrogen state that I'm currently in than R andro would....and I do want to continue to stay on something that we know knocks the shit out of PFS.
If I have to chill for a little while and take nothing it's not a major issue. What do you think?
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There ain't no traffic along the extra mile.
Never Quit.
Try this. Take progesterone and DHEA together around dinner time/before bed once a day. Start with 5mg of each (prog/DHEA). DHEA counters any anti androgenic activity prog has, but they also work in synergy because progesterone blocks the estrogen pathway and when DHEA is administered together the DHEA can only go the DHT route, which you want. You can either add back in 5a-DHP in or just take a break from it either way is fine. You are still going to get some downstream conversion of allopreg from the progesterone anyways.
If your estrogen is going too low back off on the doses. They are all based on a positive feedback mechanism in the body so regardless of what you are doing (and staying at physiological doses) you are only pushing your body back in the right direction.
I would say continue the herbs if they are helping (they work very similar to the hormones by modulating cortisol, estrogen, testosterone, DHT and prolactin) and try the prog/dhea combo. The only reason I got started on prog again is after I saw that study showing the oral prog increased T, DHT and prostate size big time.
R andro can help, but again if you stack too many anti estrogens together you have a good chance of tanking E especially with androsterone. It was shown that only 2mg of androsterone can inhibit aromatase up to 90%, which is probably why pine pollen works so well because it only needs to contain a small amount of androsterone to be effective.
Last edited by TubZy; 03-11-2017 at 01:56 PM.
Im sold. This will be the next thing I do outside of the normal protocol. 5mg of prog/dhea before bed. I decided I am going to hold off for just a little bit though just to recalibrate and to see how much if any of the improvements that I got from the 5adhp stick around after discontinuing. Today is day three and besides my sleep going down a couple of notches I still feel like I'm still taking it. I think I remember reading on the Ray Pete forum somewhere that 5adhp may "stay in the cells". Not sure what that means but I am kinda hoping there is some truth to it.
I forgot that small amounts of androsterone is in pine pollen. Guess that explains why the pine pollen/5adhp combo crashed maxout's estrogen.
As of now are you taking the prog/dhea combo with 5adhp or have you dropped the 5adhp for now?
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Can I get same effect from progesterone cream together with DHEA? I don't want to buy pills until I have used up the cream. It's Paraben free fyi
I have been off 5a-DHP for about two weeks or so now. Cool man sounds good, keep it up. Well, topical 5a-dhp can prolon the half life longer since it stays in the skin rather than get processed through the liver and excreted which is much quicker. But overall, 5a-dhp, prog, preg, dhea etc. all upregulate your natural levels so as you are taking it you are still pushing the body in the right direction. I think you should be fine dropping 5a-dhp for now at least, while you are going to use prog