Joe's Recovery Journal

[Brooks]

Doing the protocol while using exogenous test defeats, for the most part, doing the protocol at all. One of the major reasons for doing this is to get your natural test production back online. That's not going to happen while doing TRT. If anything, it's going to hinder your progress, not push it along.

Cd I’m struggling to understand how being on bioidentical testosterone makes the protocol pretty much pointless. The protocol is a blueprint to optimize sleep, exercise, diet, stress management, gut health and soooo much more than just boosting test. As you point out - the protocol obviously has some sort of positive epigenetic impact on those recovering from PFS. So how does attacking your recovery from every angle (sleep, exercise, nutrition, gut, hormones, stress etc) become worthless once someone is getting their sex hormones in optimal ranges through testosterone?

Love and am incredibly appreciative of you CD! I just don’t understand why it would stop/hinder the protocol from working as long as you were doing everything else right and not expecting a silver bullet cure. Just using it as a tool in the tool-belt of recovery.

[Gomesgame]

What I would guess here is that the full protocol is based on an holistic approach, which pursues an optimal body function systemically working by itself, what you have to do in this protocol is just push for this systemical reset, and TRT gives you testoterone, which is a part of the protocol, indeed _____ but _____ in the end it halts the body balance by interfering with it exogenously (having it's complications as well) just like any medication that mess with endocrinal system and it's optimal function, and that is the very opposite from what the protocol means

Just a guess, though

[God]

Cd I’m struggling to understand how being on bioidentical testosterone makes the protocol pretty much pointless. The protocol is a blueprint to optimize sleep, exercise, diet, stress management, gut health and soooo much more than just boosting test. As you point out - the protocol obviously has some sort of positive epigenetic impact on those recovering from PFS. So how does attacking your recovery from every angle (sleep, exercise, nutrition, gut, hormones, stress etc) become worthless once someone is getting their sex hormones in optimal ranges through testosterone?

Love and am incredibly appreciative of you CD! I just don’t understand why it would stop/hinder the protocol from working as long as you were doing everything else right and not expecting a silver bullet cure. Just using it as a tool in the tool-belt of recovery.

ya, I'm kind of confused about that too. PFS isn't hypogonadism, so getting it "back online" isn't really the issue....?? Not sure why trt would ruin everything but I'm not the expert

[Hulk Smash]

Well, a small fraction of guys are actually hypogonadal. I've seen enough labs of others to know for certain. The reason it happens in them is because of the rise in estrogens when 5ar type 2 is inhibited or methylated and no longer working. When this happens, testosterone starts preferring Aromatase conversion and estradiol rises, thus increasing all estrogens downstream of estradiol. Then the elevated estrogens get into the brain and signal the pituitary and hypothalamus to shutdown gonadatropin production which then shuts down testosterone production from the testes. It does happen.

I think the spookiness of TRT is because of two reasons.

1. If improperly used, it can permanently shutdown your natural testosterone production and even cause infertility. Essentially, you risk adding more problems to an existing problem.

2. Not everyone responds well to it while using it because you can feel a lot worse using it. Some have severe androgen receptor sensitivity while some are very deficient in brain Allopregnanolone. With the receptors, agonizing them further with more androgens is physically god awful. With the Allopregnanolone, it is made from progesterone which is made from pregnenolone and the brain's production of pregnenolone can be shutdown in many. Your brain is then "riding on fumes" of what little is passing through the blood brain barrier from serum and progesterone at serum is also produced from the testes. So, when you go on TRT, you obviously shut down your testes from producing testosterone but also progesterone. So the little progesterone your brain was getting is no longer there, thus causing further suppression of Allopregnanolone and GABA receptor signaling.

In short, they don't want you to feel way worse than you might or risk causing further issues.

Are there clear indicators of hypogonadism without getting labs?

[Cdsnuts]

Cd I’m struggling to understand how being on bioidentical testosterone makes the protocol pretty much pointless. The protocol is a blueprint to optimize sleep, exercise, diet, stress management, gut health and soooo much more than just boosting test. As you point out - the protocol obviously has some sort of positive epigenetic impact on those recovering from PFS. So how does attacking your recovery from every angle (sleep, exercise, nutrition, gut, hormones, stress etc) become worthless once someone is getting their sex hormones in optimal ranges through testosterone?

Love and am incredibly appreciative of you CD! I just don’t understand why it would stop/hinder the protocol from working as long as you were doing everything else right and not expecting a silver bullet cure. Just using it as a tool in the tool-belt of recovery.

Like I said, and as @Gomesgame mentioned, your body will not produce it's own Test if you're on TRT. One of the main pillars of this protocol. There are also other hormonal effects from the herbs that will be hindered by not letting the body produce it's own hormones.

To be a little clearer.....There will be certain strides made if you do this protocol while on TRT, no doubt. You will get in great shape, you will get a clearer mind, better functionality overall and many of the other benefits will come despite the TRT....but then what? We all know that even on TRT, pfs is still prevalent, so why suppress yourself even more? You're gonna have to come off the TRT eventually if you want to heal because I have not taked to one man in ten years who has ever recovered while running exogenous Test......not one.

This is a systemic approach. It pushes ALL the bodily systems to adjust to a proper baseline. It does this relatively simultaneously. So your brain will be healing, your muscles will be growing, your stress will be going down and your hormones will be recovering. Everything is connected in your system through one way or another. By holding one of these healing areas back, you're going to be dragging ALL the others areas as they try to move forward.

What ever gains you make on this protcol on TRT will be lost when you go to get off as your body is now going to have to get your endocrine system back up and running. it's easier on the system and quicker to fully heal when all the bodys functions are coming back online together. This is what I have noticed with everyone I work with over the past decade.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, a small fraction of guys are actually hypogonadal. I've seen enough labs of others to know for certain. The reason it happens in them is because of the rise in estrogens when 5ar type 2 is inhibited or methylated and no longer working. When this happens, testosterone starts preferring Aromatase conversion and estradiol rises, thus increasing all estrogens downstream of estradiol. Then the elevated estrogens get into the brain and signal the pituitary and hypothalamus to shutdown gonadatropin production which then shuts down testosterone production from the testes. It does happen.

I think the spookiness of TRT is because of two reasons.

1. If improperly used, it can permanently shutdown your natural testosterone production and even cause infertility. Essentially, you risk adding more problems to an existing problem.

2. Not everyone responds well to it while using it because you can feel a lot worse using it. Some have severe androgen receptor sensitivity while some are very deficient in brain Allopregnanolone. With the receptors, agonizing them further with more androgens is physically god awful. With the Allopregnanolone, it is made from progesterone which is made from pregnenolone and the brain's production of pregnenolone can be shutdown in many. Your brain is then "riding on fumes" of what little is passing through the blood brain barrier from serum and progesterone at serum is also produced from the testes. So, when you go on TRT, you obviously shut down your testes from producing testosterone but also progesterone. So the little progesterone your brain was getting is no longer there, thus causing further suppression of Allopregnanolone and GABA receptor signaling.

In short, they don't want you to feel way worse than you might or risk causing further issues.

Well said.